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New David Brin on eroding privacy, and watching the watchers
[link|http://www.privacyfoundation.org/privacywatch/report.asp?id=79&action=0|Everybody's missing the point]

Excerpts:

In fact, the new powers of sight demanded and received by the FBI aren't all that awful. What bugs me terribly is that there have been no accompanying and countervailing powers of oversight, enabling citizen watchdog groups to observe how these new powers of vision are used. That second half of the deal was never offered to us. Nor did most of our protectors in the civil liberties community even ask...

Both groups assume a fundamental trade-off between safety and freedom, and derive economic benefit from the fact that we swallow this awful notion.

But is such a trade-off real? I can tell you that I refuse to even let it be a basis for discussion! Nobody tells me that I must choose between safety for my children and their freedom. It's a non-starter.

Can we have both safety and freedom? The evidence can be seen all around us. We are - even after 9/11 - toweringly safer and freer than any other people in history. The two go together. All it takes is breaking the stupid notion of dichotomies and trade-offs.

I say:

Privacy is a form of power - a defensive power. The more active power a person has, the less privacy we can entrust him with. The less active power a person has, the more likely he has a legitimate need for privacy. But even then, there are limits. No power without accountability.

Do away with executive privilege, and they can set up all the spycams they want, as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and I'll gladly consent to (voluntarily) running the occasional bit of Microsoft software, as soon as they completely open their code base.


[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
New Time to emulate the silver surfer(not the comic)
get in their systems, change my stuff as often as needed and relocate to cash nevada when it gets too dicey,
thanx,
bill
Mike Doogan
"Then there's figure skating and ice dancing and snowboarding. The winners are all chosen by judges. That's not sports. That's politics. And curling? If curling is a sport, pork rinds are a health food."
New There's a good idea I haven't seen before
Privacy is a form of power - a defensive power. The more active power a person has, the less privacy we can entrust him with. The less active power a person has, the more likely he has a legitimate need for privacy.

That cuts through so many of the arguments I've seen about the surveillence society. It's simple, clear, easily understadable, and (therefore) doomed to never be suggested by anyone who already has active power.
We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html|Thomas Friedman]
New Several disagreements with that article.
Having MULTIPLE national ID cards?

Won't work. Over time, they will drop until only one exists. That will result in a single, centralized database.

Your driver's license is NOT a national ID card.

A trusted flier program through the airlines, for instance, will be much like supermarket check-out clubs, at first.
Sorry, I don't use either.

It will be an extra benefit for those who undergo the inconvenience of background checks. But rapidly, like the supermarket clubs, it will penalize those who don\ufffdt have one.
Exactly. Why be penalized because you don't want the government to track you?

Biometric-based I.D. cards for everybody are coming. Squint, look ahead 50 years and honestly tell me you can envision a world where such things are not simply assumed.
Yep. But just because I can see that it will probably happen, does not mean that I have to accept it. The more people who fight it, the longer it will take to implement.

The important factor is not whether such cards exist, but whether they are a tool for robbing us of things we want and need.
Okay, remember this line and read the next quote.

Every time our government has demanded new powers of sight, we have sought new powers of oversight, such as the Freedom of Information Act and open meetings laws. Inevitably, they turn around and try to eviscerate the measures we\ufffdve taken.
The government will demand the tools to take our privacy and then try to "eviscerate" any protections from those tools.

So, why not just fight to prevent the tools in the first place?

If the government doesn't HAVE them, then we don't need protection FROM them.

Besides, it's a LOT easier to deny the government a tool than it is to check that it isn't being abused once they have it.
(Ollie and his paper shredder come to mind.)

In fact, I see privacy and freedom as among the most important of all human values. History shows that we got them by increasing the amount that each of us, as a sovereign citizen, knows. We did not get them by frenetically trying to police what other people know.
Welcome to 2002. May I introduce you to the concept of the "database"?

NSA, anyone?

There will be places and things that cannot, for reasons of national security, be available for scutiny by the average citizen.

Now, the problem is human nature.

Do you collect the information, hoping that someone not subject to scrutiny will NOT abuse it...
-OR-
Do you restrict the information collected so that, even if they were the kind to abuse it, they would not have it?

Check out the FBI's history. Or the CIA's history.
New This topic may be a golden example of why it is that,
logic (alone) is never enough ? (OK - as close to a golden example as can be.. 'logically deduced'? ;-)

I'd rather run with your sententious 1-line sonnet, Welcome to 2002. May I introduce you to the concept of the "database"?

Voila! precisamente and all that: and the Heart of my periodic fulminations about this so-called Information Age, which I insist is neither more nor less than YAN..

..of an endless series of human follies, so aptly summarized by Bertie Russell.

..a near-prototype of our infinite capacity for EZ oversimplification of just about every complex situation we encounter

..ie It's another Black Tulip Craze. Period. {sigh}



Anyway, I think the author 'feels' the built-in contradictions, kinda gets a gnawing sense that all our cute principles contain always the Reverse as well as the Obverse: of some nice idea we wish would 'settle things'.

Now when the topic is really a meta-topic, ~ Information about Information (gathering? dissemination? security? access? ____?) Well, we can see where involution and recursion leave us: as far from [Truth] as usually we Are.

Prediction [!] We shall see voluminous scholarly, pedantic, folksy, wishy-washy and surgically-keen.. essays next,

as we-

trod inexorably-

down this-

slippery Path: of trying to keep the checks&balances just slightly ahead... of the malevolently greed-besotted folks who will use Any technology ---> in pursuit of Ayn-Randish Ideals (or by any Other fav name). Be sure also to intermix theological Certainties of all those Possessors of Revealed Truth: to confound our extrication from the morass, the chasm which:

I think I see Yawning like the event-horizon's periodic emissions nearby.. the Unviewable Black-Hole that draws us ---> in.


Of Course I can envision no 'solution' next, any more than Bertie could. He chose to illustrate what-we-always-do, via a squiggly line-drawing of opposing armies hacking.. away at each other. I can't improve upon his brevity.


Ashton
it's.. all.. happening.. in..

s l o w

m o t i o n.

time for some Dickie Wagner, I think.
New The weird thing is........
Yes, we'll see numerous "experts" on this subject.

But I think that the old experts are still the best.

1984

Just because we can see it happening DOES NOT mean we have to accept it.
     David Brin on eroding privacy, and watching the watchers - (marlowe) - (5)
         Time to emulate the silver surfer(not the comic) - (boxley)
         There's a good idea I haven't seen before - (drewk)
         Several disagreements with that article. - (Brandioch) - (2)
             This topic may be a golden example of why it is that, - (Ashton) - (1)
                 The weird thing is........ - (Brandioch)

Goose-bumps for any who Know.
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