My bad; faulty memory.

Post #283,638 by admin 5/2/07 10:33:05 AM Reply	My bad; faulty memory. The lower thrust arm and a wishbone bar. Apparently the thrust arm was most of the way out of the bushing. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #283,641 by folkert 5/2/07 10:40:12 AM Reply	Makes MUCH more sense. That would drop the front suspension into the concrete. That is more like the Wishbone suspension the "Ford Model T" used. But just because it is an old design doesn't mean it is a bad one, in fact it is one of the best for ride and handling that has really ever been designed. The only problem with it, is the fragility of it, as was your case. Sorry to go on and on about the torsion bar... But hey, what else am I supposed to do? -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #283,646 by admin 5/2/07 10:52:16 AM Reply	So, what's a thrust arm in normal terms? I haven't had much luck looking it up online. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #283,647 by Another Scott 5/2/07 10:58:19 AM Reply	It holds the bitumogeneous spandrels. HTH!
Post #283,650 by jake123 5/2/07 11:23:40 AM Reply	Isnt' that what holds the havershaft to the giggleclamp?
Post #283,663 by folkert 5/2/07 11:51:37 AM Reply	No, that is the kininomer bearing pin, giggleclamps require 4 or 6 of them. It depends on the havershaft twist, being righthand adjustable or lefthand fixed. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #285,446 by jb4 5/26/07 10:49:59 PM Reply	Now just quit that out, the lot of you! It' too late at night for all this technical confabulation, dammit! jb4 "It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment." — George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
Post #283,659 by folkert 5/2/07 11:47:01 AM Reply	I'd have to say it Same thing as a panhard bar. Except since you independent suspension, it isn't quite a panhard bar. Panhard bars are made to keep a full axle in place with limited side to side movement. Now for something like independent suspension, you need something like a "Watts" link. Except live part of the Watts system are on the outer parts vs the the center. Though, there are other pieces it could be. One possibility being the "single end" of the wishbone. When I was doing sprint car racing a few (dam 10) years back the single eyelet end of the wishbone was called the "thrust end", because it was the piece that actually thrusted the front solid axle forward, that was the only connection to the solid axle to move it forward, hence the "thrust" link. So, given that it would have caused the front end to scrape on the pavement, I am thinking the second explanation. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #283,666 by admin 5/2/07 12:00:42 PM Reply	Something like this? [link\|http://www.tooladdiction.com/tool_for_bmw.htm\|http://www.tooladdic.../tool_for_bmw.htm] Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #283,667 by folkert 5/2/07 12:04:06 PM 5/2/07 12:05:30 PM Reply	Reverse Watts Link it is, then. Hmmm. Also functioning as a lower control arm. To which the wishbone looks like it is connected to. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned. Edited by folkert May 2, 2007, 12:05:30 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #283,670 by admin 5/2/07 12:16:26 PM Reply	My current understanding is this: The thrust arm governs the position of the vertical wheel plane (perpendicular to the axle). So had this gone, the wheel would have been wobbling back and forth like a drunken sailor. Not pavement diving, but still very hard to control. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #283,672 by folkert 5/2/07 12:19:35 PM Reply	That is what a reverse watts link does... It operates as a "lower control arm" when used in independent suspension. But then, I am speaking from /dev/ass as I have never really^W looked at the A8 suspension. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #283,687 by CRConrad 5/2/07 4:02:14 PM Reply	The "position of the vertical wheel plane"? Yeah, in the... ...fore-and-aft direction, to be precise -- the vertical is also "perpendicular to the axle", but that is handled by the springy bits of the suspension. :-) Like Greg says in the great-grandparent post to yours, "thrust" implies that it's pretty much parallell to the long axis of the car, to transmit the fore-and-aft forces from the drivetrain and brakes. (And I think that's what it looks like in those BMW pics you found.) That's a "multi-link" suspension, the even-newer development from the "double wishbone" suspension, where one or both (usually just the lower, I think) of the A-arms has been replaced by two or more separate simple rod-shape arms; kind of like picking the "A"- or "wishbone"-shaped arm apart into two: A -> /\\ . So it seems your A8 has multi-link, not actual double A-arms. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #283,691 by Andrew Grygus 5/2/07 5:36:20 PM 5/2/07 5:39:37 PM Reply	Yup . . . . . they use a "multi-link" design because regular A-arms take too much dedicated space. With multi-link they can squeeze more stuff into a smaller space, and the tortured shapes of all those components demonstrate they're squeezing every cubic inch they can get. Oh, pardon me . . . they would be squeezing "cubic centimeters" over there, wouldn't they? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx] Edited by Andrew Grygus May 2, 2007, 05:39:37 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #283,700 by CRConrad 5/2/07 6:00:19 PM Reply	Jawohl. And every one they save, they squeeze into the engine instead, you know. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #283,690 by CRConrad 5/2/07 4:51:36 PM Reply	That's a very different "wishbone". Fords, both of Model T and Model A, used longitudinal "split wishbones", one on each side of the car, with the single-head end attached to the chassis and the double-head end attached to the ("live", i.e solid beam) front axle. These are nicely illustrated at [link\|http://www.zigsstreetrods.com/Pages/suspfrntcomp.html#RadiusRods\|Zig's Street Rod - Suspension - Front Components / Radius Rods]; it's the long thing that's attached to the frame far behind the front axle -- that really looks like a chicken wishbone! (They don't work too well, though; for the better alternative, go back up to [link\|http://www.zigsstreetrods.com/Pages/suspfrntcomp.html#FrontParallelLinkKits\|Zig's Street Rod - Suspension - Front Components / Front Parallel Link Kits].) Many modern cars (i.e, since about 1950 or so) use "double wishbone" suspensions with two transversal A-shaped arms on each side, one above the other, and with the single-head ends attached to the vertical spindle --or, nowadays, a "virtual" spindle between the top and bottom ball joints at the outer (single) ends of the A-arms or "wishbones". Go to the [link\|http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html\|Suspension Bible] the Other Scott so helpfully found and search in the page for "double wishbone", and you'll see how they're totally different. It has just about NOTHING in common with the Tin Lizzie's "Wishbone" suspension, except the name. Not "an old design" at all. (Then check [link\|http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html#antiroll\|the bit about anti-roll bars] and you'll see how you were kind of right to "go on and on about the torsion bar" after all: The A8 does have a torsion bar -- the sway bar is a torsion spring, only it springily-connects the wheels not to the chassis but to each other. :-) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #283,692 by folkert 5/2/07 5:46:59 PM Reply	Yep, schooled I am. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.

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