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New Beware the Aussie invasion...
Well, just me, anwyay. As part of the trip to [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=280597|The Beep Bash], I will be spending some time in the fair US of A.

Basically, I fly into NYC on Korean Airlines on the morning of the 25th June lcoal time, and I have an outbound flight from Chicago (O'Hare) on the 6th July. I intend to travel by train between the two at some point after the 'Bash on the 30th.

I haven't fleshed out all the details yet, but it looks like it will be something like this:
* 25th arrive in NYC.
* 28th or 29th, catch a train to Philly.
* 30th get over to Camden for the Bash.
* Probably the 1st, train to DC.
* 3rd, train to Pittsburgh.
* 3/4th, train go Chicago.
* 6th, fly out.

This is still mutable, as it somewhat depends on the Amtrak timetables.

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please



-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

· my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] ·

New What's in Pittsburgh?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New It's a train stop.
I hafta look at the timetables again....

Okay, I was attracted to the idea of travelling from DC at 8:10am, getting to Pittsburgh at 9:55. That means I get to see the countryside during the daylight hours. However, that leaves me about 14 hours with my luggage in Pittsburgh before the overnighter to Chicago. That's what's in Pittsburgh. :-)

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please



-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

· my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] ·

New Don't bother
There's no countryside along there that's worth making plans around.
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New The Penguins. ;)
Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)

Brenda



"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert
****************************

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss
***********************************

"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06
*********************************
New Cool. I am going to the Beep Bash this year.
Though, I'm betting I'll be driving my Lancer this year.

So, unless I the wife agrees to let me drive the Chevy Venture, it'll be just me and maybe someone else.


So, I guess Admin? Drook? Others?
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Huh? Don't Lancers have back seats or what? (Just wondering)
New More like a shelf
New I'm driving the Audi this year.
Which has plenty of room for multiple people, especially if we use the trunk.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New you wont need the trunk until you are at the bash
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Dang, I'd almost come just for the ride...
Well, OK, not in the trunk.

But otherwise...

Almost.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New Then come for the ride *and* the party!
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Don't even THINK...
about giving BT a ride anywhere...given what you've dealt with already.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Are you kidding me?
He's not even allowed to stand near it.

The car was just in the shop this weekend... seems the front torsion bar was nearly disconnected. Had it become more than nearly disconnected, bad things would have happened, mkay?

And while it was in the shop... they scratched up one of the rear quarter panels. So I get to take it in again. They're paying for the work, of course.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New ICLRPD. (new thread)
Created as new thread #283526 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=283526|ICLRPD.]
New BT + Scott's Audi == Serious case of...
...bad carma.
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New He is Tillaay! Destroyer of Vehicles! ;-)
New Well, the torsion bar...
being disconnected would have just cause the one side to go down to the "bumper stops".

Just like the old Valiants used to do. Mmmm, interesting corollary there, donchyathunk?

And you are STILL going to drive it to New Jersey, where it is daytime all the time due to the "natural" glow from all the super-sites.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New It was more than that.
I might have the term wrong... at any rate it was a piece that would cause the nose end to go diving down into the concrete and the car to veer wildly out of control.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New That sounds more like an A-arm . . .
. . but those critters are usually attached extremely securely, because if one of those lets loose the nose end will dive into the concrete and the car will veer wildly out of control.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New And.. and the Question is - -
H. T. F. do you get something like that Coming Loose! on a 'modern' vehicle? allegedly built where they have discovered 'torque wrenches' (and lock-washers (usually, bent-over lock-tabs.))

Sheesh.. YPTB


Teutonic

New rubber wears loose, the pounding shakes it apart.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Then they don't have the bump-stops properly
spec'd and manufactured. Design defect and should be recalled immediately.

I am sorry, but any suspension component that is a "spring" in literally *ANY* stock "Murican" automobile has a feature that when the spring bustifies... the suspension is still sound but is severely wonky as far as stance.

This should include torsion bar suspension in the old Valiants and should your A8, since it has to abide by US regulations in regard to basic safety. ANY spring can self-destruct and therefore the regulations exist to keep these things from making the vehicle's axle, etc from failing to do the basic work, though badly compromised on "quality" of work.

Now, if indeed, a failing ball-joint has been ignored, it would have had Severe Problems with steering drifting, sudden (drastic) shifts in direction when driving over things like Rail Road tracks and many sounds when driving at slow speed. This ball-joint failure would have caused a nosed dive into the concrete. Though, I doubt your persnickety senses would not have missed the horrible tracking the steering would have done.

So, in summary, the US has regulations regarding spring that all stock vehicles must adhere to when sold in the US from Dealerships locate inside the US. It is true that while your car would have looked like a "pimped out" A8 with hydraulics, it would have still been drivable if the Torsion bar spring had sheared or "let go". Unless the Ball Joint (or both) had failed, to which the suspension has been completely compromised, you would have been able to safely, but uncomfortably, drive to your $100/hr Audi Service Center.

Yes, this rant about "scaring" people into authorizing work to be done is a common trait in "higher end" vehicle manufacturer, but also has been seen across the board. Its a pet peeve of mine, though I guess I have a lot of Pet Peeves.

Including this sequence of hex numbers:
Zero 9 Eff 9 One 1 Zero 2 Nine D Seven 4 Eee 3 Five B Dee 8 Four 1 Five 6 Cee 5 Six 3 Five 6 Eight 8 Cee 0
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Moot discussion now, sorry. :-)
And it definitely needed replacing. Loud clankings and such are typically indicative of badness, not joyness. :-)

These guys don't use scare tactics to get work... I had them look at the brakes and was told "they're fine, you won't need to do anything for another 15K miles at least". Brakes would have been a perfect opportunity to get mo' money from me.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Ehh, ranting. Its what I do.
And see my other post on the other message.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New You sure it's a torsion bar?
Search for "A8" [link|http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html|here]. It sounds like the problem was more likely due to a bad link in the multi-link front suspension.

OTOH, if you search for "torsion bar" it sounds as if that would affect the ride quality but not be so much of a safety issue.

At least on old GM cars, the front torsion bar has long bolts with rubber bushings that always failed over time. It made noise, and made the car lean, but wasn't a real safety issue.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who hopes the repairs went well.)
New Thrust arm, sorry.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I don't think the A8 has torsion suspension.
The current model has air suspension; before that it was ordinary coil springs, I think.

I would guess that the "torsion bar" you're thinking of is what is also called a "sway bar" (and probably lots of other terms too).

[Sorry if this invalidates any of your pontifications, Greg. :^]


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New My bad; faulty memory.
The lower thrust arm and a wishbone bar.

Apparently the thrust arm was most of the way out of the bushing.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Makes MUCH more sense.
That would drop the front suspension into the concrete.

That is more like the Wishbone suspension the "Ford Model T" used.

But just because it is an old design doesn't mean it is a bad one, in fact it is one of the best for ride and handling that has really ever been designed. The only problem with it, is the fragility of it, as was your case.

Sorry to go on and on about the torsion bar...

But hey, what else am I supposed to do?
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New So, what's a thrust arm in normal terms?
I haven't had much luck looking it up online.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New It holds the bitumogeneous spandrels. HTH!
New Isnt' that what holds the havershaft to the giggleclamp?
New No, that is the kininomer bearing pin, giggleclamps require
4 or 6 of them. It depends on the havershaft twist, being righthand adjustable or lefthand fixed.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Now just quit that out, the lot of you!
It' too late at night for all this technical confabulation, dammit!
jb4
"It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment."
George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
New I'd have to say it
Same thing as a panhard bar.

Except since you independent suspension, it isn't quite a panhard bar. Panhard bars are made to keep a full axle in place with limited side to side movement.

Now for something like independent suspension, you need something like a "Watts" link. Except live part of the Watts system are on the outer parts vs the the center.

Though, there are other pieces it could be. One possibility being the "single end" of the wishbone. When I was doing sprint car racing a few (dam 10) years back the single eyelet end of the wishbone was called the "thrust end", because it was the piece that actually thrusted the front solid axle forward, that was the only connection to the solid axle to move it forward, hence the "thrust" link.

So, given that it would have caused the front end to scrape on the pavement, I am thinking the second explanation.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Something like this?
[link|http://www.tooladdiction.com/tool_for_bmw.htm|http://www.tooladdic.../tool_for_bmw.htm]
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Reverse Watts Link it is, then. Hmmm.
Also functioning as a lower control arm. To which the wishbone looks like it is connected to.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
Expand Edited by folkert May 2, 2007, 12:05:30 PM EDT
New My current understanding is this:
The thrust arm governs the position of the vertical wheel plane (perpendicular to the axle). So had this gone, the wheel would have been wobbling back and forth like a drunken sailor.

Not pavement diving, but still very hard to control.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New That is what a reverse watts link does...
It operates as a "lower control arm" when used in independent suspension.

But then, I am speaking from /dev/ass as I have never really^W looked at the A8 suspension.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New The "position of the vertical wheel plane"? Yeah, in the...
...fore-and-aft direction, to be precise -- the vertical is also "perpendicular to the axle", but that is handled by the springy bits of the suspension. :-)

Like Greg says in the great-grandparent post to yours, "thrust" implies that it's pretty much parallell to the long axis of the car, to transmit the fore-and-aft forces from the drivetrain and brakes. (And I *think* that's what it looks like in those BMW pics you found.)

That's a "multi-link" suspension, the even-newer development from the "double wishbone" suspension, where one or both (usually just the lower, I think) of the A-arms has been replaced by two or more separate simple rod-shape arms; kind of like picking the "A"- or "wishbone"-shaped arm apart into two: A -> /\\ .

So it seems your A8 has multi-link, not actual double A-arms.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New Yup . . .
. . they use a "multi-link" design because regular A-arms take too much dedicated space. With multi-link they can squeeze more stuff into a smaller space, and the tortured shapes of all those components demonstrate they're squeezing every cubic inch they can get.

Oh, pardon me . . . they would be squeezing "cubic centimeters" over there, wouldn't they?
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Expand Edited by Andrew Grygus May 2, 2007, 05:39:37 PM EDT
New Jawohl.
And every one they save, they squeeze into the engine instead, you know.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New That's a very different "wishbone".
Fords, both of Model T and Model A, used longitudinal "split wishbones", one on each side of the car, with the single-head end attached to the chassis and the double-head end attached to the ("live", i.e solid beam) front axle.

These are nicely illustrated at [link|http://www.zigsstreetrods.com/Pages/suspfrntcomp.html#RadiusRods|Zig's Street Rod - Suspension - Front Components / Radius Rods]; it's the long thing that's attached to the frame far behind the front axle -- that really looks like a chicken wishbone! (They don't work too well, though; for the better alternative, go back up to [link|http://www.zigsstreetrods.com/Pages/suspfrntcomp.html#FrontParallelLinkKits|Zig's Street Rod - Suspension - Front Components / Front Parallel Link Kits].)

Many modern cars (i.e, since about 1950 or so) use "double wishbone" suspensions with two transversal A-shaped arms on each side, one above the other, and with the single-head ends attached to the vertical spindle --or, nowadays, a "virtual" spindle between the top and bottom ball joints at the outer (single) ends of the A-arms or "wishbones".

Go to the [link|http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html|Suspension Bible] the Other Scott so helpfully found and search in the page for "double wishbone", and you'll see how they're totally different. It has just about NOTHING in common with the Tin Lizzie's "Wishbone" suspension, except the name. Not "an old design" at all.

(Then check [link|http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html#antiroll|the bit about anti-roll bars] and you'll see how you were kind of right to "go on and on about the torsion bar" after all: The A8 *does* have a torsion bar -- the sway bar *is* a torsion spring, only it springily-connects the wheels not to the chassis but *to each other*. :-)


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New Yep, schooled I am.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Then the next question is...
Does the CD player "do" MP3?

And, is it going to be a two (or three) car trip thing again this year?
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New 6 disc changer
and an iTrip for the MP3 player. The car was built before the iPod craze, unfortunately.

Since Lily is traveling with Shizzit, we'll have at least two. The Audi has 4 large, comfortable seats and a 4-body trunk, so we're probably covered there.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Mkay.
So it looks like we are at your whim for music ...

Unless you want to peruse my selection and load it up on your shuffle. Or I can bring my 2GB Nano and my 2GB Sansa e250.

Oh well. let me know.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Don't know
Not sure if I will have the kids. I'm also trying to get Shizzy to drive out with me so we can play Thelma and Louise. Will let you as the plans firm up.
New bring the kids, mine are agitating already
tell shizzit if she gets bored Atlantic City is a mere 1 hr drive away.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New It's looking like I will
I have off until July 5th so we'll probably make a vacation of it. Hit the shore, etc.
New Are you going to see a band?
And travel in a bitchin' Camaro?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New And do you know anything that rhymes with ...
... orange?
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New dunno about the camero but plenty of the other stuff
shore is pretty cool
beep's pool and grub is better. I will prolly have the 12yo with
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Re: dunno about the camero but plenty of the other stuff
[link|http://www.deadmilkmen.com/lyrics/bitchin_camaro.html|http://www.deadmilkm...tchin_camaro.html]
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Plans are set
Rita (Shizzy) and I are driving out with our collective children (ages 14, 12, 12 and 8). Will arrive on the 6/29 and depart on 7/3. We have a lot of vacationing to pack into those few days!

Sadly, Amy and Critter wont be coming this year. If anyone wants to try to talk some sense into them, be my guest.
New wel add myy 12yo to the pack, sad about amy n critter :-(
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Cool!
Someone else to terrify! :-D Well, you know what I mean.

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please



-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

· my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] ·

New Of course
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Awww man
We have vacation plans mid-June in TN. I'll have to see if we have budget left for a plane ticket to NJ.
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
New Driving from TN isn't *THAT* far to NJ...
Just follow the eerie green glow.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
     Beware the Aussie invasion... - (static) - (60)
         What's in Pittsburgh? -NT - (admin) - (3)
             It's a train stop. - (static) - (1)
                 Don't bother - (drewk)
             The Penguins. ;) - (Nightowl)
         Cool. I am going to the Beep Bash this year. - (folkert) - (53)
             Huh? Don't Lancers have back seats or what? (Just wondering) -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                 More like a shelf -NT - (crazy)
             I'm driving the Audi this year. - (admin) - (39)
                 you wont need the trunk until you are at the bash -NT - (boxley)
                 Dang, I'd almost come just for the ride... - (CRConrad) - (1)
                     Then come for the ride *and* the party! -NT - (admin)
                 Don't even THINK... - (bepatient) - (32)
                     Are you kidding me? - (admin) - (31)
                         ICLRPD. (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                         BT + Scott's Audi == Serious case of... - (Yendor)
                         He is Tillaay! Destroyer of Vehicles! ;-) -NT - (n3jja)
                         Well, the torsion bar... - (folkert) - (7)
                             It was more than that. - (admin) - (6)
                                 That sounds more like an A-arm . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                                     And.. and the Question is - - - (Ashton) - (1)
                                         rubber wears loose, the pounding shakes it apart. -NT - (boxley)
                                 Then they don't have the bump-stops properly - (folkert) - (2)
                                     Moot discussion now, sorry. :-) - (admin) - (1)
                                         Ehh, ranting. Its what I do. - (folkert)
                         You sure it's a torsion bar? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             Thrust arm, sorry. -NT - (admin)
                         I don't think the A8 has torsion suspension. - (CRConrad)
                         My bad; faulty memory. - (admin) - (16)
                             Makes MUCH more sense. - (folkert) - (15)
                                 So, what's a thrust arm in normal terms? - (admin) - (12)
                                     It holds the bitumogeneous spandrels. HTH! -NT - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                         Isnt' that what holds the havershaft to the giggleclamp? -NT - (jake123) - (2)
                                             No, that is the kininomer bearing pin, giggleclamps require - (folkert) - (1)
                                                 Now just quit that out, the lot of you! - (jb4)
                                     I'd have to say it - (folkert) - (7)
                                         Something like this? - (admin) - (6)
                                             Reverse Watts Link it is, then. Hmmm. - (folkert) - (5)
                                                 My current understanding is this: - (admin) - (4)
                                                     That is what a reverse watts link does... - (folkert)
                                                     The "position of the vertical wheel plane"? Yeah, in the... - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                         Yup . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                             Jawohl. - (CRConrad)
                                 That's a very different "wishbone". - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                     Yep, schooled I am. -NT - (folkert)
                 Then the next question is... - (folkert) - (2)
                     6 disc changer - (admin) - (1)
                         Mkay. - (folkert)
             Don't know - (Lily) - (9)
                 bring the kids, mine are agitating already - (boxley) - (8)
                     It's looking like I will - (Lily) - (4)
                         Are you going to see a band? - (admin) - (3)
                             And do you know anything that rhymes with ... - (drewk) - (2)
                                 dunno about the camero but plenty of the other stuff - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Re: dunno about the camero but plenty of the other stuff - (admin)
                     Plans are set - (Lily) - (2)
                         wel add myy 12yo to the pack, sad about amy n critter :-( -NT - (boxley)
                         Cool! - (static)
             Of course -NT - (drewk)
         Awww man - (Steve Lowe) - (1)
             Driving from TN isn't *THAT* far to NJ... - (folkert)

Battling him is like wiping off puppy slobber.
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