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New Permissions repairs hangs on 10.2.8. Help?
Our Titanium PowerBook G4 has had problems off and on for months. Its main symptom is that occasionally crash for no apparent reason, but there might be months between crashes.

It's a 667 MHz box with 1024 MB of RAM running 10.2.8. The RAM is SODIMMs (2x512) that I installed. It has (I believe) Kingmax 133 MHz 144 pin SO-DIMMs that were purchased about 3 years ago.

Hmm. It just crashed looking at the More Info page. The screen went gray with the "You need to restart your computer..." window.

Hang on.

[twiddles thumbs...]

On running DiskUtil from the GUI it typically hangs at about 45%, and sometimes the screen will go transparent gray and say a reboot is required.

I found a post on MacOSHints that suggests running "sudo diskutil repairpermissions /" from Terminal. On doing so, it claims to fix a few things (that everything claims to fix in the GUI version), then gave about 30 lines of the following:

file system object has an invalid version: 0x6f


Google turns up nothing on that.

(It just crashed on trying to repeat that check, with a different error.)

I've run DriveGenius on it to try to repair the permissions, but it crashes to the gray screen at the same point.

Booting it in TargetDiskMode when connected to our G5 via a firewire cable and running DiskUtility finds no problems with the disk. (I can't repair the Permissions that way though.)

The system does run hot. It's uncomfortable to keep in a lap for long, but these crashes don't seem to be associated with heat.

I'm starting to suspect the RAM. Is there some good RAM tester I could try? Something like Memtest86?

Anything else I should try?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who has had Tiger ready to install for months, but has never gotten past this issue.)
New Are you one of those anal people?
The ones who have to know exactly why the current version is failing before installing the new version? The kind who, if you installed the new version and it Just Worked™, would almost want to downgrade to the previous version just so you can solve that issue?

If it sounds like I know the type, it's because I am the type. And even I would suggest installing Tiger and see if you still have the problem.
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New :-)
Trouble is, I can't do a backup to a separate drive because it fails. And the idea of trying an OS upgrade on a machine that seems to be flakey just seems like it's playing Russian roulette with a bullet in the chamber. If I mess it up, SWMBO will be quite angry with me. ;-)

Thinking about it some more, I don't think it's the RAM. Even doing simple things that shouldn't take much RAM can cause it to crash at times. I'll bet some permissions got mangled on a file and when that file is touched by DiskUtility or something else the system locks up. The crashes always seem to involve the disk.

But I don't know for sure...

It sure would be nice to be able to diagnose the problem. Maybe I'll install DiskWarrior on the G5 and see what it can do for it in TargetDiskMode. (I tried a previous version off the CD and it didn't help as it also locked up.)

It's problems like these that make me less inclined to move to a Mac than to Linux. With Linux, there are enough gear-heads to give you some idea of things to check. With Macs, they're much harder to find.

If DiskWarrior and a few more things like that can't fix it, I'll probably just get a new disk and do a fresh install of Tiger. I've got an external enclosure to put the existing disk in, so we should be able to grab much of the stuff even if it's mangled.

Thanks. I think. ;-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New You're welcome, I think
Actually, for what drives cost today, if you value your own time at all it's prebably better to get the new drive, install onto that, and copy the data off the old disk mounted as a slave. Hardward upgrades are always a good approach.
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Being a Mac newbie
This feels like file system corruption, and permissions "fixing" won't help.

But being a Unix old timer, here's what I would do.

1st, I'd look into the system log files. Check /var/log/*. Not sure if your version has a system.log or something else, but start looking through these. Maybe you'll be able to see some real error messages that will point you in the direction.

I would then hook the system up in target mode and attempt to copy your critical stuff using multiple tars at top level directories. That way if you get a hit on a bad error that triggers the abort, you can work around it.

Or, I'd use "cp -rvp" to move stuff to a different disk.

Bottom line, I'd not want to use that disk again until a new file system has been created on it.
New Let's see...
Applications -> Utilities -> Console

File -> Open Log... -> CrashReporter -> lots of stuff.

In Disk Utility.crash.log I see:
"Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0xbe01ffe0"

In XDarwin.crash.log I see:
"Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x130d4020"

In Mozilla.crash.log I see:
"Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x7400000c"

I haven't looked through everything, but this KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS stuff is very popular. Hmm.

[link|http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-15474.html|MacOSXHints] indicates that a crash in IE like that can be caused by corrupted QuickTime preferences. I've tried half-a-dozen times to [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=257671|install Flash] on that thing, and it always complains about some preference not being set properly. I've tried to remove all vestiges of it, but perhaps there's some similar preference file that's causing the crash.

I'll have to dig around some more. Thanks for the prompt to check the logs. I feel like the solution is getting closer.

Hmmm. [link|http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3499799|This sounds familiar], but Flash has always been a buggaboo with me. I'll try running the FlashUninstaller and installing Flash again.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Under unix, this type of message can mean several things
#1 - If it is a new program, its got a bug and is attempting to access memory it does not own. Another name for it is a segfault.

#2 - If it is a truly tested program, and you are sure it is bug free (as much as you can, relative term here), you may be looking at a corrupted program on disk that then loads and attempts to access memory it does not own due to program corruption screwing up its addressing, or:

#3 - You really do have bad memory that flips a bit occasionally, or:

#4 - Now we get into the odd hardware areas, flaky CPU, cracked motherboard, etc.


A disk problem can trigger #2 by corrupting the image on disk.
New long shot
try making a new user w/admin access then try the repairs from that account.
Darrell Spice, Jr.            Trendy yet complex\nPeople seek me out - though they're not sure why\n[link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare]
New Re: Permissions repairs hangs on 10.2.8. Help?
Retrieve data of value to external medium, then applejack the system.

Also look into fscking the disk in single user mode.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New fsck after copying as much data as you can
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Thanks all. I'll report back in a few days.
New Depending on how one defines "a few"...
Well, let's see, continuing our story about a Titanium PowerBook G4 (667 MHz, Gigabit Ethernet, 1 GB RAM, 30 GB hard drive) - It occasionally crashes for no apparent reason, Flash won't install, it has file permissions errors that don't ever seem to be fixed, it can't be backed up with CarbonCopyCloner or similar, and Disk Warrior and other utilities can't seem to fix it. Using AppleJack didn't fix the problems; creating a new user to run the utilities didn't fix the problems; trying repairs in Target Disk Mode didn't fix the problems.

I booted the TiBook in Target Disk Mode and copied the hard drive to our G5 box. Everything seemed to copy just fine. (But that doesn't create a bootable image.)

I installed a 100 GB Seagate 2.5" drive in a macally PHR250cc Firewire/USB enclosure and tried to use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone the internal 30 GB drive to it. It failed to a gray screen after copying a few files.

I tried installing the 100 GB Seagate in the TiBook and installing Tiger from the DVD. It got through about 80% of the install, then failed (it suggested trying again). I tried again, and it failed again the same way.

Ok, I needed to step back some more and look at [link|http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=332983|Gulliver's] suggestions again. It mentions updating the firmware.

Looking at Apple's [link|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86117|Firmware Updates] page, it lists 2 possibilities. But I have to boot the machine into OS 9 from the hard drive. How do I do that? Hmm. After searching around quite a bit I found an [link|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106667|Apple page] that discusses switching between OS 9 and OS X (using the Startup Disk applet).

The initial boot of OS 9 failed and it suggested turning off the Extensions (using the Shift key). The second boot with extensions off worked, but I had no internet access. The third boot with extensions on took forever, and I had to go through a registration process with Apple (rassin' frassin registration), but eventually it let me continue and it eventually found our wireless network. Finally!

I downloaded the 4.2.9 firmware that seemed to be for our 667 MHz TiBook G4 (GB Ethernet). I ran it and it said that that firmware won't work on the machine. :-( So I downloaded the 4.1.8 firmware. Same result. :-(

I don't know what the problem is with the firmware update. But they both seem to address problems with TiBooks running with 1 GB of RAM (as this one has).

About the only other thing I can try is removing the extra RAM and take it back to 512 MB and then try updating the firmware. If that doesn't do it, well, I guess we'll just have to live with it in its present state.

Thanks for all the tips, everyone. I'll report back if I have any success.

Cheers,
Scott.
(One of the lessons is - don't wait too long to update a machine if it starts acting flakey.)
New "You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike."
Alex

When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
New Verdict: Bad RAM
I took out the top SO-DIMM and left the bottom one in. The system wouldn't boot OS 9.2. I put the other SO-DIMM in the bottom slot and it booted 9.2 and X fine.

In OS X I ran Disk Utility to "Verify Disk Permissions" with the good 512 MB DIMM in place. It ran fine. I ran "Repair Disk Permissions" and it ran fine.

One of the SO-DIMMs is flakey. :-( They're Kingwin parts (discussed in the OP). I'll probably order a couple of [link|http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=4AEBAB1EA5CA7304|these] in a day or few.

Cheers,
Scott.
(Lesson #2: If you suspect bad RAM, spend some time checking whether it's good or not rather than spinning your wheels with software checks.)
New Update.
The new Crucial RAM (2x512 MB SO-DIMM) fixed the hangs on Repair Permissions. The hard disk is fine.

Adobe has updated the help page for the Flash 9 installation failing on OS X, [link|http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=4aa64290&sliceId=1|here]. The problem is that the Flash installer searches the disk for every copy of Firefox, Mozilla and Netscape. If it finds any old copies that were installed by a different user (e.g. a backup from a previous installation on another machine), it'll complain about "Creating file: 1008:5, -5000 Access Denied Error". Unless you are willing to chmod 775 on all the relevant directories, or delete all the old installations, the install will continue to fail.

The machine had several copies of Mozilla and at least one old copy of Netscape. I haven't finished cleaning it all up yet, but that should resolve the problem.

Of course, Adobe's installer's smart enough to find the other installations and smart enough to know the permissions are wrong, and smart enough to require sudo for installation, but isn't smart enough to set and reset the permissions (with an "Ok?" dialog) automatically. Grrr.

Hope this helps someone else out there.

Cheers,
Scott.
(The next adventure will be replacing the 4200 rpm 30 GB hard drive with a 7200 rpm 100 GB drive... [edit:] The only thing to remember when using CarbonCopyCloner is to use the same Volume name for the cloned drive. After that, it's all good.)
Expand Edited by Another Scott July 4, 2007, 01:22:15 PM EDT
     Permissions repairs hangs on 10.2.8. Help? - (Another Scott) - (14)
         Are you one of those anal people? - (drewk) - (5)
             :-) - (Another Scott) - (4)
                 You're welcome, I think - (drewk)
                 Being a Mac newbie - (crazy) - (2)
                     Let's see... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         Under unix, this type of message can mean several things - (crazy)
         long shot - (SpiceWare)
         Re: Permissions repairs hangs on 10.2.8. Help? - (pwhysall)
         fsck after copying as much data as you can -NT - (boxley)
         Thanks all. I'll report back in a few days. -NT - (Another Scott) - (3)
             Depending on how one defines "a few"... - (Another Scott) - (2)
                 "You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                 Verdict: Bad RAM - (Another Scott)
         Update. - (Another Scott)

Power has been restored.
147 ms