US market is very competitive

Post #275,319 by tonytib 12/10/06 12:30:01 AM Reply	US market is very competitive and that's one reason a number of Chinese carmakers are looking to take a crack at Europe first. IMNSHO, French cars are crap - that's based on driving a Peugeot 308 (or something similar) in Spain over 1000 miles or so. It floated all over the road - very soft. I saw very few French cars in Germany. Peugeot and Renault both ran screaming from the US. Maybe the French have improved in the last five years or sell different cars in the UK. BMWs are nice cars - and almost always get great reviews from the US enthusiast magazines - but the maintenance costs are way high (at least compared to typical Japanese car). If I ever go for a cheap, used luxary car, I'll shop Lexus (SC400, LX470) or Infiniti (Q45, FX35/45, G35 coupe). For a fun, reliable car, we have options such as the Scion tC and Acura Integra/RSX, which are very reliable. If Lexus could ever get their styling together (and, based on the latest LS460, it looks like they haven't yet), BMW and MB would be in serious trouble in the US. --Tony Who is still very happy with his reliable, paid off long ago, 14 year old, fun to drive RWD Nissan 240SX convertible.
Post #275,344 by Another Scott 12/10/06 10:29:58 AM Reply	Much agreement. Lexus cars look horrible to my eyes, unless they're knockoffs of a big Mercedes barge (like the previous LS, and even that looks bloated). The latest "Look Ma, my car can park itself!" LS is just weird - it looks wayyyy too long from the side. I think Acura has the most consistently good-looking cars these days. The RSX was a sweet design, and the TL is very well done. You have to look pretty closely to realize that it's based on an Accord (a give-away is the front and rear glass). The Honda brand, on the other hand, usually disappoints because it's become so bland (see the Accord). BMW can make very nice handling cars, but I more-often like the styling of M-B cars. Both are expensive to maintain, as you note. I think the Germans' profits over the years have suffered due to competition with Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. But the competition is good for all of us, and they're branching out into new brands (like the Mini). I think the French would have a tough time re-entering the US car market. They are known (if they're known at all) for making quirky cars and consumers here have become accustomed to the importance of reliability. Building a service network will also be a challenge. Initially, the Chinese will have to compete on price. They're used to fighting battles for decades, but one has to wonder how long they can tolerate huge losses these days. I don't expect the Chinese market to continue its 10% per year growth rate indefinitely (AFAIK, it's never happened before). When the Chinese recession comes, I would expect it to be a duesey. I wouldn't bet against it being 15 years or more before China sells more than 50k cars a year in the US. The existing big players aren't stupid either, though they act that way sometimes. If very low cost cars become important in the US, they'll ship cars from places like Brazil, Thailand, etc., to the US to compete and not simply hand the market to the Chinese manufacturers. The 240SX was a nice looking car, too. I think Nissan would do better if they'd bring over more light-weight, small cars like that again. They should have had things like the Versa here long ago, IMO. It apparently competes very well against the Honda Fit (which admittedly is an older design). Cheers, Scott. (Who realizes he's gone on too long again...)
Post #275,391 by tonytib 12/10/06 9:45:11 PM Reply	I'm not an Acura fan or Honda fan, although the RSX is very nice looking - and going out of production. Acura is trying to move upscale, which I think is a mistake, especially because they do not have any V-8s. The S2000 is OK, most Hondas are boring, and the Element and Ridgeline are very ugly. Many of the Chinese auto companies have ties to regional governments, so if the government has the money, they have a lot of staying power (apparently the provincial governments are quite powerful in China). One company just spent about $1 billion improving their plant with imported equipment. And they realize that just functional doesn't cut it in Europe or the US (one big problem is workers' "iron rice bowl" mentality - in the past in China, nobody ever got fired). The biggest Chinese car companies have volumes of about 200,000 cars/year, but some have bigger volumes in joint ventures with non-Chinese auto makers. My guess is that the companies with joint venture experience will do better outside of China. I suspect the US will go into recession or little growth soon (based on housing blowing up), and it'll probably affect China, too. Anyway, cars are a very personal thing. For example, I don't like to work on cars or spend a lot of money on maintenance. If I did do my own work, I'd be much more likely to consider BMW or Audi. BTW, the 240SX in Japanese form is called the Silvia, and was used quite a bit as a stock car racer with souped up engines. I've seen a 240SX on the road with a "Silvia" badge, but I'm not sure it's real. After all, I've seen a Mercedes with a "AMG CLK 500" badge, which isn't real (the AMG model is CLK55). --Tony
Post #275,405 by Another Scott 12/11/06 12:03:02 AM Reply	On Acura and Honda. (new thread) Created as new thread #275404 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=275404\|On Acura and Honda.]

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