Post #272,040
11/3/06 11:32:21 AM
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Bus driver fired for giving Bush the bird
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON -- A school bus driver fired after she reportedly made an obscene gesture at President Bush has filed a union grievance in an attempt to get her job back.
The 43-year-old driver, whose name was not released, was driving middle school children back to school after a zoo visit on June 16 when the president and GOP Rep. Dave Reichert drove slowly by in a motorcade.
From the bus, the children waved; with the windows down in their car, Bush and Reichert waved back.
That's when the driver gave the president the finger, according to Reichert and Issaquah superintendent Janet Barry.
[link|http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0611030150nov03,1,4018345.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed|source] lincoln
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.
[link|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com|contact me]
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Post #272,054
11/3/06 12:46:29 PM
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Fired for being a Bad Example to the Kids.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #272,055
11/3/06 12:51:07 PM
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Good.
Inappropriate behavior in front of 11-14 yr old children, the drivers primary responsibility.
I don't care if it was the President or just some idiot in a car that cut the driver off.
BUT, it will likely be that the grievance filed makes big news, driver gets their job back and some nice financial stipend and the lesson the kids all learn from this is do whatever you want whenever you want and nothing will ever happen to you....because in the end you can just sue.
Teach your children well.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,074
11/3/06 2:24:10 PM
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For some reason that "Good" fails to surprise me
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Post #272,078
11/3/06 2:45:14 PM
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So I should sit idly by
while those who are paid for by my taxes to teach and be responsible for my children and their safety demonstrate a lack of capability to do those tasks?
Sorry, thats TENURE...and I don't agree with that either.
Of course, I don't expect you to understand nor believe that this view has absolutely zero to do with the object of the drivers ire.
To each their own.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,084
11/3/06 2:56:41 PM
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beats watching the kids fornicating in the back
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #272,086
11/3/06 3:16:08 PM
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I'm lost...
she's a bus driver, she doesn't have tenure and she doesn't teach children.
While her conduct was rude and inappropriate in front of children, it doesn't demonstrate a lack of capability to provide safe conduct for children.
Furthermore, if she is fired, and replaced with someone who DOES have a history of accidents while driving, what does that say about their commitment to safety?
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Post #272,087
11/3/06 3:20:41 PM
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I was surprised that she didn't
bring up a First Amendment defense: "Hey, it's my constitutional right to express myself on political matters..."
lincoln
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.
[link|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com|contact me]
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Post #272,092
11/3/06 3:51:43 PM
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Responsibility is door to door
and while not teaching a subject, it is my expectation that all representatives of the school to conduct themselves appropriately in front of my children.
She did not.
And I would have big problems if they replaced this driver with someone less capable. Thanks for la poisson rouge.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,105
11/3/06 5:30:14 PM
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Surprise - I concur with beep
She was terminated for inappropriate behaviour in front of the kids. Plus, if she's driving a bus, how could she have two hands on the wheel and still flip the bird. Now whether or not termination was too harsh a punishment, I would have to read the employee conduct rules of the bus company.
First amendment does not apply, she's driving a school bus one-handed. Safety issue.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
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Post #272,110
11/3/06 6:03:14 PM
8/21/07 6:27:08 AM
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Me too
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
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Post #272,116
11/3/06 6:36:04 PM
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different reason, too stupid to deny it to stupid to drive
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #272,125
11/3/06 7:33:58 PM
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Need more info to decide if I agree
Re: Safety. Was she stopped waiting for the motorcade to go by?
Re: Causing the kids to see something obscene, disgusting and depraved they've never seen before. Did the kids actually see the Chenying?
Re: Severity of punishment. Was the firing from management in accordance with regs (perhaps a warning might have sufficed) or from pressure from the Gov?
Still, it was dumb to get caught.
-----------------------------------------
Draft Obama [link|http://www.draftobama.org/|now].
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Post #272,311
11/5/06 9:14:41 PM
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All questions answered, I disagree
-----------------------------------------
Draft Obama [link|http://www.draftobama.org/|now].
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Post #272,112
11/3/06 6:05:20 PM
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Me three
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Post #272,128
11/3/06 8:06:23 PM
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got a finger for you right here
[link|http://www.tacticaltelevision.com/?q=node/17|http://www.tacticalt...on.com/?q=node/17]
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #272,152
11/3/06 11:41:00 PM
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Cute movie.
Stupid people for thinking it wouldn't last forever and come in "handy" someday.
Glad I'm not a politician.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,133
11/3/06 9:18:53 PM
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Really. Reaching. If not downright prissy
So then, for 'rudeness' you lose a job. Period - no details needed. Not surprised; don't want you on my jury, either.
Or was it an "expression of disapproval of the performance of a politician, while he is actively soliciting votes, at a time nearing polling?" Where lies the First Amendment, amidst the debris of so many others?
That linked brief summary is so stark, the conclusion you leaped-to is about >you< - not about any of the circumstances which you know nothing of:
Imagining that a gesture [was it momentary? or sustained for 5 city blocks?] is "endangering" your progeny! implying that both hands must steer 100% of the time:
I'll bet YOU don't have both hands on your steering wheel 100% of the time the car is moving. And I'll bet that when you remove one to pick your nose: the car [hasn't crashed yet or we'd have heard.]
Just pure Authoritarian sophistry of the control-freak kind - to imagine.. that her gesture endangered anyone, or that these '06 kids were :-0
SHOCKED..! SHOCKED..! SHOCKED..!
Oh, the HORROR (I'm sure they don't see any dead Iraqi kids on their tube, either.)
If, in fact - the kids looking at the Prezmobile could even see the gesture (?)
But even if they could, it is purest hypocrisy to consider the scale of 'rude gesture to a pol' at the end of his campaign <==> equivalent to any snap-judgment of loss of livelihood.
ie I demur.
By All Means:
Do sit idly by. More often.
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Post #272,151
11/3/06 11:39:50 PM
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There you go, assuming again.
Safety? That was a red herring brought by someone else.
It was about behavior and appropriateness.
And you, my friend, will be the among those rewarding...proving that no action (as long as it suits you, regardless of timing and placement)...proving to these children that no act comes with consequence and that no person shall be respected if he holds a view somehow different from mine.
Fuck everybody.
Yep...that will bring everyone to the Valhalla you seek.
You see, if my KID points his finger at another kid and goes "bang"...he's suspended. Must be better to be a grown up, huh. You can shout "its my RIGHT" and point YOUR finger and its "an expression of disapproval."
Gotta love it.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,156
11/4/06 12:52:27 AM
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Concur entirely, about the BANG
No kid in my charge would be playing with cap-pistols or hyper-realistic AK-47s with notches and fake blood spatters: either. Or listening to Kill-the-Bitch CDs, or..
But the medial digit has become as common an expression as, "so's yer old man".
Now, if you had 900 mSec to indicate to a passing glad-handing pol, your disapproval (of his platform? himself? whatever), as I see it you have two universal options:
1) Thumbs down.
2) Middle finger up.
Both the Pres and the Veep appear to make liberal use of #2, while you'd think that the refined folks in positions of Power.. might opt for the former, wouldn't ya?
See what happens when the Top is as corrupt as this particular assortment? They reinforce the tawdriness of the unwashed masses.
(Personally my choice would have been: to take Both Hands off the wheel and position my fingers in a Cross.. while Shrub wouldn't get it, maybe someone else in the car would. Might even decipher ~~ blood-sucker and -spiller! if imaginitive. OK forget that last.)
I see your point about the cheelrun and about a patina of civility to delay the warping of their malleable jelloware.. for a little while. So I'd say to the frustrated driver with a busload of kids waving at the bling-bling aspect of Celebrity:
"This gave bad impressions to your charges; impressions of adult contempt for a putatively contemptible figurehead. You should have stifled that natural urge. You're docked x-days and get a reprimand."
I hope the union prevails. Loss of employment demands a more severe rudeness than this common digi-signal IMO. And one needn't be an anarchist to turn the other cheek, as some ancient guy used to say to an earlier flock of sheep. (But then his messages got passed through corp HR and committes) and, well - today we gots Prezs and Veeps who swear.. by the guy They Say, but still Lie A Lot, in between finger raisings. And invitations to an unnatural act, in the latter case.
So then.. ya want this driver should do better than The Rulers.. or starve next?
Guess I need to send you my Gooder Book.
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Post #272,182
11/4/06 12:20:52 PM
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curious again...
didn't you bring up safety?
In fact, didn't you argue that it was the bus driver's drive to teach...and that was her most important function?
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Post #272,198
11/4/06 2:41:18 PM
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Re: curious again...
and while not teaching a subject, it is my expectation that all representatives of the school to conduct themselves appropriately in front of my children. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,249
11/5/06 4:41:01 PM
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A hand gesture, BeeP...
has fuckall to do with the safety of your precious leeedle childuns!
Halloween's over. Put the straw away for another year, OK?
jb4
"When the final history is written in Iraq, [link|http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tmate/2006/tmate060926.gif|it'll look just like a comma.]"
— George W. Bush, 24 Sep 06
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Post #272,252
11/5/06 4:41:41 PM
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Read first. Post after. Been addressed.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,164
11/4/06 10:08:35 AM
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More here.
[link|http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003336906_busdriver02e.html|Seattle Times]: According to Issaquah School District officials, the incident happened when a district school bus stopped for the president's motorcade while returning from a field trip in Seattle.
As the president waved to the school children from his limousine, the bus driver made an obscene gesture, said Sara Niegowski, a spokeswoman for the district.
Bush was in Seattle attending a fundraiser for Congressman Dave Reichert, who was riding in the same limousine.
Reichert campaign officials confirm that Bush told Reichert about the gesture and that the congressman later called Issaquah's superintendent to let her know about the incident.
But the district had been informed by other staff the same day it happened, Niegowski said. It investigated and found evidence pointing to "unprofessional conduct" from the driver, she said.
The 43-year-old driver, with the district since 1999, was fired in September. "This incident has to do with the responsibility of an employee who is supervising students to act professionally and serve as a role model for appropriate behavior," said Issaquah Superintendent Janet Barry. "This was part of a pattern of behavior with this particular bus driver, not an isolated incident."
[...]
"There's only one individual who saw this and it happens to be the president of the United States," Dugovich said. "We're interested in saving her employment."
Barry said she personally knows Reichert from his days serving as King County Sheriff when they discussed school resource officers. Reichert called as a courtesy, Barry said.
"He never discussed his view or suggested what action he thought would be appropriate to take," Barry said. "He reported the incident believing \ufffd rightly \ufffd that I would want to know this occurred, that as a steward of children and public resources, one of my employees had acted inappropriately in her job capacity."
Barry reiterated that the decision to terminate the employee was not motivated by any political reason.
"If the bus driver had made the gesture to a driver who cut her off on a local road, we would have taken the same action," Barry said. 1) It wasn't a safety issue - the bus was stopped. 2) The local representative tattled on her after being told about it by Bush. 3) They also heard about it from "other staff". She shouldn't have been fired over a triviality like this, and I hope she gets her job back. The school superintendent should probably be voted out too, IMO. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #272,165
11/4/06 10:16:37 AM
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Right
Not an isolated incident, pattern of behavior.
leads to
No penalty.
Go ahead kids! There is no such thing as appropriate behavior. We'll teach you this by example.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,166
11/4/06 10:22:40 AM
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Penalty only comes when Pol gets involved. Hmmm.
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Post #272,167
11/4/06 10:27:23 AM
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Show patience until..
..you give a real show of inappropriate.
Then you act.
But now it was Bush...everyone hates Bush...so you have to let it slide...lest the bleeding hearts come out the woodwork?
Back to post one.
Catch a 12 year old saying F*** You to an adult. Do you punish? Or do you only punish if it was said to anyone OTHER than POTUS? With POTUS, you get rewarded?
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,174
11/4/06 11:32:41 AM
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POTUS didn't complain to the school board...
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
If you believe the Seattle Times story, the kids didn't see the gesture in question.
I doubt that she would have been fired if the Representative (who didn't see the gesture himself) didn't have a personal relationship with the School Board Superintendent, but we'll never know.
Yes, as a representative of the schools, the driver has a responsibility to be a good role model. I just think that this incident shows more signs of political influence than "protecting the children" or some such.
There is such a thing as a resonable reaction (e.g. a talking-to).
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #272,317
11/5/06 9:49:56 PM
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In-Your-mind that it's about Shrub's earned obloquy
Wouldn't matter whether Clinton or JFK - certainly not to me.
Try to look at it this way, for a change - and stop reading all-purpose concrete behavioural homilies to yourself:
You're stopped in traffic.
(Maybe you know it's for a motorcade? maybe not.)
The POTUStean One drives.. by.. on a Recruiting Tour ==> Political Hat In Place, cha cha cha
(slowly, was it.. or Fast?)
You know that your chances ever of having even a 13 sec converstaion with this figurehead are exactly 1/0, but:
Here. He. Be.
You have a couple seconds to rack brain for:
What-to-do-???-besides-Nothing -
(Ever a free citizen's minute-by-minute choice nay, the necessity of all liff.)
What SIGN can you send instantly that says, ~ "I disagree with most-all you stand for." ?
I listed the options, earlier. Presumably though, within your ineluctable Authoritarian compass:
(I may make-up-your answer, as you are always imputing simplistic skogan motives and mob-grade mentality to antagonists. Eye for an eye - got that from the Good Book.)
If: she had turned thumb decidedly DOWN.. that too would have been impermissible.
Natch too, you elide the various photo-evidence of the Satanic Duo each whipping out *his* digit from the holster == it's OK for them to evince displeasure in a simple earthy way, but not a school bus driver. ('Course the audience guffawed at the POTUS' rather inapproriate mike test / betcha though, had the bus driver done. it. right. there. for the same 'testing purpose': there would have been stern homilies leaking all over the floor.)
Er, make up your mind on this goose/gander thing too, OK?
Pretty FUCKING petty, though not unexpected from this whiny wastrel - to make even the slightest remark on this insignificant event UNLESS MIRTHFULLY; ie not VINDICTIVELY. Bloody hyocrite that he is.
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Post #272,320
11/5/06 10:18:30 PM
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And you continue
to try and justify inappropriate simply as a "political act"...ignoring the simplicity of the point that the object of driver's ire is irrelevent (inappropriate IS inappropriate, regardless)
and then you go down that even more tawdry path of "well THEY do it!" (sure son, the Japanese children kill themselves regularly...since THEY'RE doing it...it must be ok)
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,181
11/4/06 12:15:33 PM
8/21/07 6:28:36 AM
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I've seen more on local news about this
And find myself disgusted at Reichert riding this politically for all it is worth. Using it to whip up supporters at speeches and such. It doesn't reflect well on his character either. A little tit for tat on his part making sure he see's to it that the bus driver is fired. Bush could do with seeing more citizens flip him the bird although school bus drivers on duty should refrain.
I find myself thinking that the driver in question definitely deserves disciplinary action, but probably ought not to be fired unless there is an established pattern of behavior. This is probably influenced to some degree by Reichert's repeatedly using her as a trophy for the self righteous (probably meth using and gay prostitute patronizing) "moral values" crowd.
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[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
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Post #272,183
11/4/06 12:23:55 PM
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so...let's get this straight....
The only person to see and report this incident is the President of the US?
And he's reporting on an incident of a LOCAL school bus driver?
What? Did she refuse to give him a blow-job or something?
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Post #272,184
11/4/06 12:31:10 PM
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Re-read the Seattle Times story.
My reading: Only POTUS saw it, he told local rep who was in the car. Kids on bus didn't see it. School board heard about it from local rep and other sources (leaving the implication that the driver perhaps told others). Local rep calls board superintendent, who he previously knew, and driver gets booted.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #272,187
11/4/06 12:35:37 PM
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My reply...yep. she didn't give him
the bj. :-)
That's the only way I could imagine a President having THAT thin a skin.
(But Jim...you don't understand. They didn't LOVE me. Why this bus driver was there giving me a finger!)
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Post #272,186
11/4/06 12:33:06 PM
8/21/07 6:28:47 AM
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More on Reichert (new thread)
Created as new thread #272185 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=272185|More on Reichert]
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
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