Re: Thanks for posting. Please come back more often.

Post #271,853 by systems 11/2/06 8:08:07 AM Reply	Re: Thanks for posting. Please come back more often. I would like to add few things I accused boxley of being incompetent and impolite, I really didnt wonna use this word, I hate to insult ppl like this. In a way, it were meant in self defense not as an attack. And anyway, sorry. But really guys, do some effort when you learn about islam, only rely on trusted unbiased source and try to show even the tiniest good will! I understand the excuse, if many muslims are misinformed about islam, why would the non-muslim be better, i understand But those mis-informed, are usually, poor, non-educated, ignorant etc ... So its not really a question of your religion, but your level of education and such ... I expect more from you guys I, being, poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams. W. B. Yeats, He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven
Post #271,912 by Another Scott 11/2/06 7:17:11 PM Reply	Don't take it personally. We quite often have heated arguments here, even when we're good friends. Don't take it personally. Speaking for myself, I have problems with many religions. And I'm able to separate the ideals of a religion from the way it is practiced. But, ultimately, just as a language is defined by how people use it (not by dictionaries and committees - except, perhaps, in France and Quebec), religion is defined by how people practice it. Also, it would be helpful if you could give cites to illustrate misinterpretations, etc., so that we could learn more. One of the things we hear quite often in the US is that moderate Muslims do not criticize those who use Islam to justify violence against women or anyone else. If you have counter examples you can share, that would be very helpful. For example, what do you consider a trusted source to counteract the issues raised in the original [link\|http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6050408.stm\|BBC Story] and the lack of Dalits converting to Islam? Please keep in mind that many of us have read at least parts of the Qur'an and interpretation of it is often not straightforward. (If it were, then mullahs probably wouldn't be needed - just as priests and ministers wouldn't be needed if the Bible were always easy to interpret.) Thanks. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #271,913 by boxley 11/2/06 7:29:01 PM Reply	the reason you dont hear moderates is that the Sufi folks are not followed in the news. That particular group of Muslims are fairly widespread and excellent people who truly understand the Koran and how to apply it to life, not just modern but life. The western news media cant tell the difference and the arab media are owned and operated by gulf arabs and hardline states. They dont belong so therefore dont report on Sufi discussions. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #273,208 by Ashton 11/13/06 9:59:36 PM Reply	:-) - missed this gem, a nicely conciliatory response which also happens to be rich in truthiness.. not bad. Indeed, it may even be so.. that JC et al copped much of their best material from Sufi lore - direct, or as transmogrified into various offshoots, in India. As they neither operate press agencies nor generate political-flacks - it's unsurprising that 1:1000? Muricans might ever have heard the name. What goes around (comes around only if you're on the right Great-circle-route.) Row Row Row Your Boat? - a Sufi parable.
Post #273,214 by boxley 11/13/06 10:27:12 PM Reply	um err, muslim sufi sect was 700+ After JC (didnja know) and they came out of north afrique? Perhaps you are confusing them with someone else. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #273,237 by Ashton 11/13/06 11:50:44 PM Reply	Actually later than that, IIRC - using the name 'Sufi' But their esoteric beginnings/sources (I wasn't there) are alleged to be quite older than JC, intertwined with Moors generally (After all, there's nothing New under the local sun.) Believe 'the Order' didn't get the name 'Sufi' until 1200+ I was more interested in a sense of the origins of the ideas they expressed - than any attempt to follow all the cross-pollenations. Now of course, that's all much easier, once you know enough to vet the veracity of a plethora of 'authoritative' sources with websites. Their superior storytelling abilities appear to have eclipsed the ancient sources; after-all, putting all the aphorisms together needs a different talent than just being Brilliant. (Though not even 'Brilliance' likely compares with being fully Awake, whatever the date.) Indries Shaw has put many of these stories into pretty good Engrish.

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