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New Is it possible to build a good Dynamic HTML application...
...or am I just wasting my time?

My idea is to rewrite our PowerBuilder client/server application as a web application with a Dynamic HTML interface and a Java application server.

I know all about the application server stuff, but how about the dynamic html client? It looks like it's possible to build a high quality client using html and JavaScript. But my manager is looking for an interface that will look a like current Windows interfaces, with trees, buttons, grids, etc and I just don't seem to be finding much for examples or pre-made widgets (especially grid controls and decent edit mask controls).

Has anyone out there built applications entirely in html/javascript that resemble Windows GUIs?

Thanks,
John
New You can get about 80% there.
We're doing it right now where I work. It's tough, real tough. So far, we're targetting IE5.5 (which we can do because we write Intranet applications) and my colleague has managed to build a quite good tabbed dialog box effect, but DOM support isn't quite advanced enough for NS6 or Opera to display it right. Sorry, I don't have a web site to point you to.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Re: You can get about 80% there.
We're doing it right now where I work. It's tough, real tough. So far, we're targetting IE5.5 (which we can do because we write Intranet applications) and my colleague has managed to build a quite good tabbed dialog box effect, but DOM support isn't quite advanced enough for NS6 or Opera to display it right. Sorry, I don't have a web site to point you to.

Would it be better to use applets or ActiveX controls, or would you just recommend sticking with client/server for now?

Thanks,
John
New Depends on your browser targets...
Personally I would always choose applets over ActiveX.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I don't know about better...
Our server spits out HTML and JavaScript. Generally, JavaScript is powerful enough to do what we want, and if it's not, then we either don't do it that way, or we submit the page to a PHP script to do it. Development time is actually quite quick - more so if you have a framework building things like navigation bars (we wrote our own).

I wouldn't even consider ActiveX. We considered a Java applet for new email notification, but that A Ways Off.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Re: You can get about 80% there.
We're doing it right now where I work. It's tough, real tough. So far, we're targetting IE5.5 (which we can do because we write Intranet applications) and my colleague has managed to build a quite good tabbed dialog box effect, but DOM support isn't quite advanced enough for NS6 or Opera to display it right. Sorry, I don't have a web site to point you to.

Would it be better to use applets or ActiveX controls, or would you just recommend sticking with client/server for now?

Thanks,
John
New Re: You can get about 80% there.
We're doing it right now where I work. It's tough, real tough. So far, we're targetting IE5.5 (which we can do because we write Intranet applications) and my colleague has managed to build a quite good tabbed dialog box effect, but DOM support isn't quite advanced enough for NS6 or Opera to display it right. Sorry, I don't have a web site to point you to.

Would it be better to use applets or ActiveX controls, or would you just recommend sticking with client/server for now?

Thanks,
John
New Re: You can get about 80% there.
Careful how you hit that save button, it can be dangerous...
New If you decide to try...
Start by looking at [link|http://dynapi.sourceforge.net/dynapi/|DynAPI].

(I try to avoid this stuff, and pointing people there usually delays them long enough for me to make my escape...)

Cheers,
Ben
New Re: If you decide to try...
Start by looking at DynAPI.

(I try to avoid this stuff, and pointing people there usually delays them long enough for me to make my escape...)


Yes I took a look at that; thanks for the link. There's not much in it for the stuff I'm looking to do though.

Thanks,
John
New Yes, but it requires a rethink
If you're sold on the HTML .. uh ... "platform", then you need to rethink process flow for your users first and foremost. For example, I've got a general ledger app custom-built for my company. As you have no doubt found out, asking the HTML renderer to rewrite a large grid of data for each new data point is cumbersome; equally cumbersome is the "too many blank rows" problem. So the first step might be to enter data a row at a time and return a new blank row on submit.

Unfortunately, this cuts into users' perceived workflow time. So you have to redesign your apps to help the user out. For example, my GL app uses multiple frames to give the user something to do in one window while the other is being submitted/redrawn. I also ended up doing a lot of predictive javascript, so the values that they are likely to type in are either already there in the textbox when they (re)load the page, or are a click away. It really takes a lot of process and workflow analysis to get it right. But the payoff is worth it.

Keep in mind this is just a couple examples. If you have specific questions about it as you starting prototyping/spot-testing, I'd be happy to discuss them further with you.
---------------------------------
A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly by the chain of their own ideas;...despair and time eat away the bonds of iron and steel, but they are powerless against the habitual union of ideas, they can only tighten it still more; and on the soft fibres of the brain is founded the unshakable base of the soundest of Empires."

Jacques Servan, 1767
New I had another idea.
You might want to rattle around in [link|http://www.webbedenvironments.com/aux/index.html|this] web site. The guy wrote a book I bought recently about CSS, DHTML and JavaScript.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Looks like it's worth a try
Found an interesting library at [link|http://www.domapi.com/|http://www.domapi.com/]. I has a table-like widget. I think I will work on a prototype and see how it works. (might take a while since I only have a hour or so a day to work on it) It just seems like everything needed to build a good GUI interface that would meet most of a business application's needs is there in the latest browsers; so its worth a shot.

If I make any progress, I'll put up a link to it and you all can let me know what you think.

Thanks again,
John
     Is it possible to build a good Dynamic HTML application... - (johnu) - (12)
         You can get about 80% there. - (static) - (6)
             Re: You can get about 80% there. - (johnu) - (2)
                 Depends on your browser targets... - (admin)
                 I don't know about better... - (static)
             Re: You can get about 80% there. - (johnu)
             Re: You can get about 80% there. - (johnu) - (1)
                 Re: You can get about 80% there. - (johnu)
         If you decide to try... - (ben_tilly) - (1)
             Re: If you decide to try... - (johnu)
         Yes, but it requires a rethink - (tseliot)
         I had another idea. - (static)
         Looks like it's worth a try - (johnu)

Gollum!
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