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New Moon landing tapes misplaced...
...conspiracy theorists have field day as [link|http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9002512&source=rss_news10|NASA misplaces magnetic tapes]. Last seen in warehouse with the Ark.
New And the reason they're talking about it now
Or so I heard on the radio ... One of the facilities where they think the tapes would be if they still had them is due to be closed. No one's going to approve money to go back through and catalogue everything in a decommissioned facility. People who have known about the loss are afraid they're going to get thrown away.

The thing that amazed me when I heard the interview was that most people have never seen the real footage. The stuff that was on TV was from a TV camera in a control room in Australia pointed at a monitor that was receiving the live feed. Due to encoding issues, they couldn't directly broadcast the live feed on TV. The real footage was apparently as clear as if they were shooting from a soundstage. Which they weren't. Honest.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New May not matter...
Hautaloma said it is possible that the tapes will be unplayable even if they are found because they have degraded significantly over the years -- a problem common to magnetic tape and other types of recordable media.
I went to play some of the RTR tapes I made while stationed in Germany. Many tapes were no longer playable, magnetic media fell off the backing... :(
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New I had some that did pretty well
My parents had a reel-to-reel in the mid 60s. The fad was to set it up during your parties and just let it run, keep it for posterity. My brother and I found it in the back of a closet in the late 70s. Sounded like it was just made. No visible degradation.

Okay, probably just over 10 years doesn't quite compare to nearly 40 years. What's your point?
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Tape quality was a major factor.
Cheap tapes spalled off in just a few years. Good quality tape stays good for quite some time
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New My tapes were the good quality
And lasted 20 years... The NASA tapes are now almost 40 years old. What is the condition/quality of them, if/when found?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New Remember the TV show Max Headroom?
They took a video cassette that had been damaged. Ran it through something like an electron microscope and scanned the entire tape without unwinding it. Then analyzed it and reproduced what the magnetic media would look like if it were unwound. Then played it. Sort of like the lasers they use to read grooves in old wax cylinders and fragile discs. I wonder if it could actually work ...
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Everything else was .spec'd you think...
That NASA was using suamyang media? Hell no.

It was the media to die for.

2" wide - 95 feet per minute (or faster), probably a shrink proof stratum, double layered coatings the whole 9 yards and then some.

Bet you they are as readable today as they were back then... IF you could find a working player that wasn't sold off for scrap in the 70's.

These reels are probably 3ft in diameter or larger.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Re: working player
If anyone found these reels -- or just something that looks like it might be these reels -- I'd bet $large_number bucks someone could build a player pretty quickly.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New SpaceDaily story with pictures. 10 kB .img
[link|http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_Provides_Further_Update_On_Apollo_11_Tapes_999.html|SpaceDaily]:

First-generation copies of the converted video from Apollo 11 as well as other first-generation copies and some original versions of the converted video for the Apollo 12 through Apollo 17 flights are still in NASA Johnson Space Center's Informational Resources Directorate's video vault in Houston.

About 18 months ago, NASA Goddard began an informal search for the tapes after some inquiries from retirees from the space agency and others from the Apollo program. NASA engineers are hopeful that when the tapes are found, they can use today's digital technology to provide a version of the moonwalk that is much better quality than what we have today. Goddard engineers were able to extract data from a nearly-identical type of tape recorded in 1969 of an Apollo simulation from the Honeysuckle Creek, Australia tracking station providing optimism that when the tapes are located, we can preserve original video.

In the event the tapes are found, NASA Goddard is taking steps to make sure all the unique hardware required to process the Apollo 11 moonwalk tapes is still around and can be used to make digital reproductions of the tapes that will be kept with the NASA History Office to make sure the video is protected and restored as needed.


[image|http://www.spacedaily.com/images/nasa-tape-recording-machines-reel-magnetic-data-bg.jpg||tape player|160|200]

The machines pictured read the 1-inch-wide magnetic data tape from their 14-inch round reels. Multiple machines are used because each reel only records about 15 minutes worth of data. As one reel fills, the next machine automatically starts recording a slight overlap for data continuity. Credit: NASA.


I'll bet the originals will turn up.

Cheers,
Scott.
New So... it wasn't analog after all.
Early Digital Media that NASA used is even better.

Cool. The 1" is on non-shrink stratum. Whodathunkit had been digital.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New I don't think it was digital. image.
[link|http://www.honeysucklecreek.net/Apollo_11/TV_from_Moon.html|Linky]:

TV from the Moon

The television camera taken to the lunar surface was a slow-scan black and white camera with a vertical resolution of 320 lines scanned at 10 frames per second. This camera was chosen because the available bandwidth from the Moon (700kHz) was not sufficient for a standard TV signal.

On Earth, the received slow scan signal was converted to a standard TV picture (in this case, the American standard of 525 lines and 30 frames per second) using specially built scan converters. At Goldstone and Honeysuckle, the conversion was done on site. The Parkes slow scan TV signal was sent to the OTC (Overseas Telecommunications Commission) Paddington gateway exchange in Oxford Street, Paddington, in Sydney and converted there.

[...]


[link|http://www.honeysucklecreek.net/station/video.html|More]:

Ed von Renouard writes,

\ufffdfor Apollo 11 we had the M22 telemetry recorders going at 120 ips (reel change every 1/4 hr for the duration of the mission) which also recorded the narrow-band slow scan TV downlink, and we had an ageing broadcast quality Ampex VR1100 4-head desk-size video recorder with 2-inch tapes to record the scan-converted NTSC-standard output TV fed to the US. This machine overheated during the downlink and kept on blowing fuses so we ended up opening its rear doors and positioning two desk fans to keep it cool. This worked and we were able record the rest of the TV.\ufffd


Here's Ed changing a tape:

[image|http://www.honeysucklecreek.net/images/Ed_v_R_at_VTR.jpg|0|Ed changing a tape|383|358]

I think it's safe to assume all of this stuff was analog. Remember, digital recorders came along much later (when cheap integrated circuits were available).

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New '50s even..
About 5 years ago, I played back a cornet tape I'd made in early '50s on a borrowed Webster-Chicago consumer grade machine (all there was for us proles, then.) .. played on a (much better quality) Uher Report-L portable of ~ late '60s vintage. WebCor brand tape - not even Scotch and surely before Mylar:

Eerily listenable quality (considering the toy mic and overall techno in the chain.)
Doesn't prove anything; likely an outlier. Much depends on how it was stored + the luck of the draw in that week's oxide slurry recipe, I'd suppose.

(Also best - store tapes in 'played' mode, not rewound; rewind to an MT reel to play. The echoes from print-through tend to be less disruptive musically.)

Gotta get this masterpiece onto later medium one of these years; the Uher is gone - a nice feeding frenzy on eBay for that little jewel; its numbers were ~Prof grade; quite better S/N, flutter than a Nagra du jour, etc.



Anyone have a medium-grade smaller (ie. not boat-anchor) R-to-R in the closet?

New I'm almost sure mom has a nice reel to reel player
I don't know if she'd consider parting with it though.

How big are the reels you would need to run?

Brenda



"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert
****************************

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss
***********************************

"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06
*********************************
New My Dad has one, too.
Still goes. I think its format is 1/4" at 9.5cm/s.

He was spending some time recently copying his tapes over to MiniDisc. :-)

Wade.
"Insert crowbar. Apply force."
New Re: I'm almost sure mom has a nice reel to reel player
Standard 7" (Actually, it's on a 5" reel for the Uher). Pro size was 10\ufffd". But the packing, shipping (so as to ever again work) is a PITA; then too, some are heavy monsters; rilly old might even have vacuum tubes! == it's bathroom scale time.

If she's really ready to dispose, would pay decent dollars depending on year, model, condition and such. Big + if it's been fired up recently and .. it worked.)

It's a thought. Thanks.

New Interesting...
Some of my 30yo casettes are still in fine shape -- except for that one Memorex..the 2nd one I made in 1976, where the adhesive in the trailer that attached the tape to the spindle failed,and I rewound the entire tape into the cassette. Anybody who knows where I can find a repair kit for such a problem? Info would be greatly appreciated!

jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New Maybe...
I vaguely recall taking apart a blank cassette (that was assembled with screws) and using those parts to repair a mangled tape. But I don't think it had the failure you describe.

The ANC-2 [link|http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/cassette.htm|here] sounds like what you need.

Caveat emptor, etc., etc. It just showed up in a search.

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Sounds good. Thanx!
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New I'd just pry it open
Either it comes apart clean and you snap it back together, or the tabs break off and you superglue it. Either way, copy it off to something else soonest. Of course finding a new home with the screw-together case would be the better bet.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
     Moon landing tapes misplaced... - (ChrisR) - (19)
         And the reason they're talking about it now - (drewk)
         May not matter... - (jbrabeck) - (17)
             I had some that did pretty well - (drewk) - (12)
                 Tape quality was a major factor. - (Andrew Grygus)
                 My tapes were the good quality - (jbrabeck) - (6)
                     Remember the TV show Max Headroom? - (drewk)
                     Everything else was .spec'd you think... - (folkert) - (4)
                         Re: working player - (drewk) - (3)
                             SpaceDaily story with pictures. 10 kB .img - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                 So... it wasn't analog after all. - (folkert) - (1)
                                     I don't think it was digital. image. - (Another Scott)
                 '50s even.. - (Ashton) - (3)
                     I'm almost sure mom has a nice reel to reel player - (Nightowl) - (2)
                         My Dad has one, too. - (static)
                         Re: I'm almost sure mom has a nice reel to reel player - (Ashton)
             Interesting... - (jb4) - (3)
                 Maybe... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     Sounds good. Thanx! -NT - (jb4)
                 I'd just pry it open - (drewk)

That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumblebee!
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