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New If its the best
then it should sell, and Creative should stay in the business.

I've seen them. It looks to me like a poor knockoff of the ipod and the controls are primitive compared to apple. If anything, I prefer the Vision since it is its own device...and not a poor attempt at a copy.

In addition...its windows only. It wasn't windows people that started the ipod craze...they just finished it for anyone else when it caught on.

One size also doesn't fit all. The vision and vision:m have a 30G player and thats it.

Then there are the additional add-ons. iPod add ins (iRiver, iRock etc...all attach and share look and feel.

Whoever tries to get into this market needs to concentrate not only on function but on aesthetics too.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Apple got to #1 by being better
When the original iPod was introduced, it was much better than the competition. I know, I've had an original Creative Jukebox - nice mechanical quality, but large and with a horrible user interface. The iPod was a success before ITMS, too, so the "seamless buying experience" came later.

Apple also has the slickest looking MP3 players, and looks do matter. Plus, the competition is stupid now - for example, Samsung started out by pricing their Nano clone the same as the iPod Nano. Geez, which would I buy?

Actually, neither, when I replaced the Jukebox, I went cheap (I'm a married guy now) and picked up a refurbished m:robe MR-100 for much less than a Nano or Mini; it works well for me, especially since its playlist format has been hacked. As far as the others go, Creative does seem better than most; I do like their replaceable batteries. But the Micro was too pricey for me and funky looking.

If m:robe dies now, I'd look at the Sansa e2xx series - if and only if Rockbox is ported to it.

I think one of the best MP3 players is the Empeg/Rio Car, which runs on Linux, but that's for use in a car or at home. I'm hanging on to mine.

     Zune - (andread) - (22)
         Never beat Apple - (bepatient) - (11)
             It's not about price - (pwhysall) - (10)
                 Sure Peter - (andread) - (9)
                     Actually he has a point. - (admin)
                     That'd be why Creative are taking over the world, then. - (pwhysall) - (7)
                         What I didn't say - (andread) - (6)
                             If its the best - (bepatient) - (1)
                                 Apple got to #1 by being better - (tonytib)
                             So you like something else. What's your point? -NT - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                 Re: So you like something else. What's your point? - (andread) - (2)
                                     Except that Zune is not part of the PlaysForSure family - (tjsinclair) - (1)
                                         no pity here - (SpiceWare)
         Allegedly... - (pwhysall) - (7)
             That's funny! - (imqwerky) - (4)
                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (Steve Lowe)
                 It's not LRPD material. Let me explain. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                     Ahhh, It's all about meat. Is that it,Sensei? -NT - (imqwerky) - (1)
                         No. -NT - (pwhysall)
             When I heard tha "Zune" sound first - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                 I did that once - (crazy)
         I could be 100% wrong - (andread) - (1)
             Plays For Sure only helps if you have multiple vendors - (Another Scott)

You want to debate how many LRPD's fit on the head of the GRR?
70 ms