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New Zune
MS is claiming to be launching Zune, its iPod killer, this year
There has been much cynicism and some speculation

Just a few weeks before the MS announcement, it was widely specualted that Creative was thinking about dumping its mp3 player business

Yet, the Creative Zen Vision-M is the nicest mp3 player I've seen ( a colleague just got one) and that might make the pricey Zen Vision truly awesome

If MS has bought, cloned, reverse-engineered, stolen the Zen Vision line this could make them an instant competitor

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New Never beat Apple
MS is pricing at iPod levels. Creative was 100 less for like function, which gave them a bit of traction.\r\n\r\nThe new ARCHOS video players are pretty nice at ipod pricing but will only offer competition in Europe..because they have limited US distribution (Circuit City and online only that I can see).\r\n\r\nApple has its own announcement to make, which is regarding the new vid chip and the ability to store and play full resolution TV (with the appropriate adapter) and by christmas will likely have one with wireless capability.\r\n\r\n\r\n
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New It's not about price
It's not even about features. Features don't sell MP3 players. Never have, never will.

It's about the facts that (a) iPods are cool (b) iTunes is easy (c) ITMS is dirt-simple to use and that (a), (b) and (c) work together.

Apple went from nothing to 80% market share and rising without the help of any monopolies or silly shit like that. They just built the MP3 player that people wanted, because the iPod plays MP3s. The user interface requires the ability to press a button and move your finger in a circle.

Here's half the "iPod killer" problem:

[link|http://www.creative.com/products/welcome.asp?category=213|http://www.creative.....asp?category=213]

vs

[link|http://www.apple.com/ipod/|http://www.apple.com/ipod/]

I can shop at the Apple store according to price, which I can see right there; Creative has about 30 different MP3 players in three categories that all look kindasorta similarish, without any pricing info. Do I want a Zen V, or a Zen Micro, or a Zen V Plus, or a Zen Micro Photo or a Zen Nano Plus or a Zen Sleek Micro or a JESUS FUCK MAKE IT STOP! I WANNA PLAY MP3S INTO MY EARPHONES! WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING DIFFICULT?

*fuck this shit, I have a life: clicks on the iPod he can afford at Apple*

Creative have the square root of fuck-all in the MP3 market, and it's not because Apple are Teh Evul Empiar, it's because Apple makes the MP3 player that people want to buy.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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New Sure Peter
the buyer knows all about the difference between flash memory and hard drives
knows what a gigabyte is
from what I've read a lot of ITMS users don't even know they can put mp3 files on the iPod

not to mention all the lies Apple, Creative, etc. tell about how many songs can fit on a device

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New Actually he has a point.
With Apple, you get an iPod, a Nano, or a Shuffle. After you decide that, how big do you want it, which comes down to "how much do I want to spend".

I looked at the Creative site and it's even worse than the last time I thought about buying something from them. I'd have no idea where to start, and I really don't want to have to learn their entire 50 product line to pick out an MP3 player.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New That'd be why Creative are taking over the world, then.
Oh, wait. They're not.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
New What I didn't say
1) that Creative was taking over the world
2) that they had a good web site

what I did say (and what no one else has mentioned at all) was

that they make what strikes me as the best mp3 player
Zen Vision-M

not only is the screen bigger w/ more colors
but when you plug into a Windows box w/ WMP 10 or above
it just works

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New If its the best
then it should sell, and Creative should stay in the business.

I've seen them. It looks to me like a poor knockoff of the ipod and the controls are primitive compared to apple. If anything, I prefer the Vision since it is its own device...and not a poor attempt at a copy.

In addition...its windows only. It wasn't windows people that started the ipod craze...they just finished it for anyone else when it caught on.

One size also doesn't fit all. The vision and vision:m have a 30G player and thats it.

Then there are the additional add-ons. iPod add ins (iRiver, iRock etc...all attach and share look and feel.

Whoever tries to get into this market needs to concentrate not only on function but on aesthetics too.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Apple got to #1 by being better
When the original iPod was introduced, it was much better than the competition. I know, I've had an original Creative Jukebox - nice mechanical quality, but large and with a horrible user interface. The iPod was a success before ITMS, too, so the "seamless buying experience" came later.

Apple also has the slickest looking MP3 players, and looks do matter. Plus, the competition is stupid now - for example, Samsung started out by pricing their Nano clone the same as the iPod Nano. Geez, which would I buy?

Actually, neither, when I replaced the Jukebox, I went cheap (I'm a married guy now) and picked up a refurbished m:robe MR-100 for much less than a Nano or Mini; it works well for me, especially since its playlist format has been hacked. As far as the others go, Creative does seem better than most; I do like their replaceable batteries. But the Micro was too pricey for me and funky looking.

If m:robe dies now, I'd look at the Sansa e2xx series - if and only if Rockbox is ported to it.

I think one of the best MP3 players is the Empeg/Rio Car, which runs on Linux, but that's for use in a car or at home. I'm hanging on to mine.

--Tony
New So you like something else. What's your point?


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
New Re: So you like something else. What's your point?
since you asked

my original point was that if MS clones Zen Vision-M for its Zune
it will have a product that could give Apple a challenge
especially among the 90-94% of users who have Windows
with PlaysForSure they don't need software or drivers

actually when my assistant was getting ready to buy his player
I told him to get an iPod (I have an older Creative and my son has an iPod)

but when I saw the Zen Vison-M in action, I could see why he got it

I'd be really surprised if anyone here thinks MS is going to "re-invent" the mp3 player

A

Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New Except that Zune is not part of the PlaysForSure family

Much to the chagrin of Microsoft's music HW partners.
Tom Sinclair

"This is a lovely party," said the Bursar to a chair, "I wish I was here."
-- The Bursar is a man under a *lot* of stress
(Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies)
New no pity here
Today's Partner, Tomorrow's Victim has been proven time and time again.
Darrell Spice, Jr.            Trendy yet complex\nPeople seek me out - though they're not sure why\n[link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare]
New Allegedly...
...Zune means "fuck" in Hebrew.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
New That's funny!
But it's too profane to be an LRPD.
Smile,
Amy

[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman|Pics of the Family]
New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #262617 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=262617|ICLRPD]
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
New It's not LRPD material. Let me explain.
The Master said to the Student, "'Zune means 'fuck' in Hebrew' isn't a LRPDism."

The Student asked, "So, what is?"

The Master replied, "Beefs!"

And the Student was Enlightened.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
Expand Edited by pwhysall July 26, 2006, 05:08:57 AM EDT
New Ahhh, It's all about meat. Is that it,Sensei?
Smile,
Amy

[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman|Pics of the Family]
New No.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
New When I heard tha "Zune" sound first
I had an irresistible aural image of high-speed drill going into my tooth in the dentist office.

With no anesthesia.

------

179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

New I did that once
Dentist claimed the cavity was very small and far away from the nerve.

What he neglected to mention was the friction of the drill heats up the tooth.
New I could be 100% wrong
[link|http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/techgames/10298627_2.html|MS to go after its partners not Apple]

my 2 cents (much stated already)
if they don't use Plays For Sure they're crazier than a Linux guy thinks they are

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
New Plays For Sure only helps if you have multiple vendors
When has MS ever encoraged multiple vendors in a market niche that it occupies? If MS brigs out a MP3 player, I would expect them to attempt to tightly tie it to Vista, to have a unique format that plays "best" on MS's player, etc. That's they way they've always operated. Look at OS/2 and DesqView and GEM and ....

As for what Zune is or will be, I think it's best to wait and see. Why feed MS's spin when it may not have decided itself what it's to be or which companies it wants to crush first?

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
     Zune - (andread) - (22)
         Never beat Apple - (bepatient) - (11)
             It's not about price - (pwhysall) - (10)
                 Sure Peter - (andread) - (9)
                     Actually he has a point. - (admin)
                     That'd be why Creative are taking over the world, then. - (pwhysall) - (7)
                         What I didn't say - (andread) - (6)
                             If its the best - (bepatient) - (1)
                                 Apple got to #1 by being better - (tonytib)
                             So you like something else. What's your point? -NT - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                 Re: So you like something else. What's your point? - (andread) - (2)
                                     Except that Zune is not part of the PlaysForSure family - (tjsinclair) - (1)
                                         no pity here - (SpiceWare)
         Allegedly... - (pwhysall) - (7)
             That's funny! - (imqwerky) - (4)
                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (Steve Lowe)
                 It's not LRPD material. Let me explain. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                     Ahhh, It's all about meat. Is that it,Sensei? -NT - (imqwerky) - (1)
                         No. -NT - (pwhysall)
             When I heard tha "Zune" sound first - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                 I did that once - (crazy)
         I could be 100% wrong - (andread) - (1)
             Plays For Sure only helps if you have multiple vendors - (Another Scott)

No. Just no. Not a potential no, a solid diamond-hard no. Like, seriously Chuck Norris testicles-hard no.
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