Yes

Post #261,540 by tonytib 7/13/06 11:59:36 AM Reply	Yes OK, she's not throwing F-bombs in the interview, but she doesn't respect or trust people who disagree with her. Speigel: So perhaps the conservatives are the more patriotic ones? Maines: Not in my view. These people may think they are patriotic, but I think they are irresponsible. SPIEGEL: There's hardly any link to country music left in your new album. Are you abandoning your previous audience for good? Maines: Well, I think they turned their backs on us. They dropped us like a hot potato the day after this happened, even after we had a seven year relationship with them -- at least the ones in the US. But this didn't happen anywhere else. We weren't going to make an album that catered to them; we didn't trust them... SPIEGEL: During the last election, countless musicians and artists took part in the campaign against Bush. But those efforts didn't make much of a difference. Was that disillusioning? Maines: I don't think we ever thought that we could have that much of an impact. Still, it was still important to try... So, yes, I guess she's self-selecting her fans by pissing off everyone who doesn't share her political opinions. I simply don't care enough about prima donna musicians to say more about this. --Tony
Post #261,548 by drewk 7/13/06 12:18:38 PM Reply	That's not insulting These people may think they are patriotic, but I think they are irresponsible. Not stupid. Not naive. Irresponsible. Well, I think they turned their backs on us ... We weren't going to make an album that catered to them; we didn't trust them... They turned away from us, so we said "Okay, bye." I'm really not seeing how it's insulting. And I don't see how it's "prima donna" to express a political opinion that over half the population holds. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #261,556 by bepatient 7/13/06 12:56:14 PM Reply	Mr K, c'mon now. The statement goes far beyond being "anti-" Bush or anti-Iraq. Its anti-everything. And I would bet you a polling position on patriotism (are you proud of your country?) would garner a much different figure than the 50% you threw out there. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #261,564 by Another Scott 7/13/06 1:11:24 PM Reply	Context is important. [link\|http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,426213,00.html\|der Spiegel]: SPIEGEL: If the right to freedom of expression is an untouchable fundamental American right, does that not make your critics the people who are truly unpatriotic? Maines: It seemed like traditional values had been temporarily suspended. I didn't recognize this country, we didn't know what year it was and we didn't know what country we were in. The Republicans and right-wing groups were very organized and they knew exactly what they were doing. It seems like our media is dominated by right-wing media moguls like Rupert Murdoch (Fox News). If you don't share their opinions, they label you as a terrorist or a person who doesn't have any family values. Unfortunately, people in the US who don't have the time to seek out the truth through neutral news sources have a real problem. SPIEGEL: So perhaps the conservatives are the more patriotic ones? Maines: Not in my view. These people may think they are patriotic, but I think they are irresponsible. And this whole episode has fundamentally changed my definition of patriotism. Do I have a flag on my car? No. Do I stand up for my rights as an American? Yes. Emphasis added. The context is - she was asked about her critics. Her comments are directed toward her critics. Presumably including the radio stations that no longer would play their songs. She's not bashing all conservatives, or saying that everyone should agree with her. Oh, and you may agree with her more than you think: SPIEGEL: Will Hillary Clinton become the next president? Maines: It would be crazy for the Democrats to make her their candidate. I don't think the country is ready to vote for a woman in the White House. :-) Finally: where's the quote you cite in the lead post from? It's not in the Spiegel interview. Thanks. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #261,569 by bepatient 7/13/06 1:32:00 PM Reply	Wasn't in der spiegel was in [link\|http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2006/06/15/bmdixie15.xml\|the Daily Telegraph] Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #261,599 by Another Scott 7/13/06 2:46:50 PM Reply	Thanks. I wonder about the editing though. The Chicks can't hide their disgust at the lack of support they received from other country performers. "A lot of artists cashed in on being against what we said or what we stood for because that was promoting their career, which was a horrible thing to do," says Robison. "A lot of pandering started going on, and you'd see soldiers and the American flag in every video. It became a sickening display of ultra-patriotism." "The entire country may disagree with me, but I don't understand the necessity for patriotism," Maines resumes, through gritted teeth. "Why do you have to be a patriot? About what? This land is our land? Why? You can like where you live and like your life, but as for loving the whole country ... I don't see why people care about patriotism." There can be no rational explanation of how Maines's remark came to drive a red-hot poker into America's divided soul, but it's only now that some of the poison has begun to dissipate. Was she talking about trumped-up patriotism in the country videos by other performers? What's with the ellipsis? What did they leave out? I'd like to see the whole interview transcript before coming to the conclusion that she said something objectionable. I don't see it myself. As Ashton reminded us, [link\|http://www.samueljohnson.com/refuge.html\|patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel]. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #261,610 by jb4 7/13/06 3:37:38 PM Reply	Seems to me that she used the wrong word. What she appears to be lambasting is [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism\|jingoism], not [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism\|patriotism]. In my view, she, and anybody else that states that the Emperor has no clothes is no more, nor no less patriotic than Der Berk himself (and is likely more so, in the truest sense of the word). It's just unfortunate that her vocabulary is a bit unpolished. jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
Post #261,613 by Silverlock 7/13/06 3:39:58 PM Reply	I think you nailed it. ----------------------------------------- Impeach Bush. Impeach Cheney. Do it now.
Post #261,574 by ben_tilly 7/13/06 1:51:23 PM Reply	No, it is not anti-everything It seems to me to be a very sane position. There is a political strand in this country that says, "My country, right or wrong." I also do not understand this. This country is supposed to stand for something. To the extent that it stands for that, I'm supportive. To the extent that it doesn't, I'm not supportive. But I simply cannot agree with the brand of patriotism that says we must back the President because the President is President and we're at war, while said President is making horrible mistakes, costing lives, and is undermining the fabric of our democracy. I'm sure that I'm not alone. Cheers, Ben a very rich person should leave his kids enough to do anything but not enough to do nothing. -- Warren Buffett
Post #261,578 by Andrew Grygus 7/13/06 2:02:21 PM Reply	Patrotism, n. Combustible rubbish . . . . . ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name. In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first. - Ambrose Bierce [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #261,600 by Another Scott 7/13/06 2:47:44 PM Reply	:-)
Post #261,609 by bepatient 7/13/06 3:36:09 PM Reply	If that was what she had said then hey, no issue. Thats not what she said. And thats, kind of, my point. I don't have any issue with her position. I have even less of an issue with yours. In fact, your position is what makes this country great. And that last line is what she appears to have attacked. However, if she remains that incapable of making her point clearly, she will continue to be misunderstood, and continue to be bashed for it. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #261,607 by jb4 7/13/06 3:31:34 PM Reply	Waidaminnit, there, BeeP Am I to understand that, in your view, the statement, "Not in my view. These people may think they are patriotic, but I think they are irresponsible.", equates to saying that being patriotic is dumb? That's a rather long stretch, doncha think? jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
Post #261,611 by bepatient 7/13/06 3:38:02 PM Reply	Change your filters there bub. I'm not even referencing the der spiegel interview. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #261,694 by mmoffitt 7/14/06 10:59:23 AM 7/14/06 11:01:26 AM Reply	Couple quotes for you. We say we have public opinion in America. We have none. We only think second hand. How many of us are there to-day who know whether it is better for the country to have a tariff or free trade? The only opinions most of us have on this subject are the opinions derived second hand from certain men who seek to influence us to their way of thinking, and their way of thinking is generally in a direction that will subserve their own private ends or the ends of the party which they represent. So, you see, we have no citizenship, and our so-called patriotism is a patriotism that is employed for the benefit of political parties and is made a party cry. There are two kinds of patriotism -- monarchical patriotism and republican patriotism. In the one case the government and the king may rightfully furnish you their notions of patriotism; in the other, neither the government nor the entire nation is privileged to dictate to any individual what the form of his patriotism shall be. The gospel of the monarchical patriotism is: "The King can do no wrong." We have adopted it with all its servility, with an unimportant change in the wording: "Our country, right or wrong!" We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had:-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. I take it Mark Twain is also on your shit list. [Edit: Added more complete quote to number 2] bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell Edited by mmoffitt July 14, 2006, 11:01:26 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #261,755 by Ashton 7/14/06 4:06:22 PM Reply	Nice! yours are better organized. 'Tis folly though :-/ I recalled the essence and was gonna rummage about for that delicious passage - must be from ~same time as the War Prayer zingers? (Nobody reads that one anymore, either - it has just Too Much TRUTHINESS) Then I thought ... Nahhhh.. pissin in the wind. Just as.. "10 Christians == 10 Religions", where every single one has her Very-Own selection of the parts s/he Likes, (omitting the ugly Nasty-stuff that turns stomachs..) all censored from the Big Manual: it's ditto for patriotism, devalued now ~~ same way as Billy killed -off innovation, for at least a generation. No listener can have the foggiest! about what memes are circulating in the sera of the user who hurls this shibboleth (any more than ya can ever get a 'Conservative' to hint roughly about W.T.F. s/he. wants. to. 'conserve'. Or to name the topics in the Bill of Rights.) Never mind that recent Ten-Commandments-All-Over yahoo - who could't quote One..) I say - screw it. (The dead-word -and- any pointless search for its arbitrary "Meaning"; this especially, as one reviews the actions of those who Use It A Lot?) Like My Gramma. I, Species-patriot Screw all banner-waving Nationalists too, while we're at it. Wave the fucking banner for: Getting this terminally-superstitious suicidal Species to, finally, Grow. Up.. Instead.
Post #261,833 by bepatient 7/15/06 11:22:45 AM Reply	Both well stated opinions. And if you would have been paying attention, you would have noticed that I don't deny her right to the opinion at all. However, as an ENTERTAINER, she has placed her livelihood in jeopardy and the livelihood of her partners, managers, crew yadda...by NOT stating her opinion well, or clearly...and indeed stating an opinion that will likely alienate those that pay her wage. Now, you can call that brave or stupid. Up to you. I know what I've already called it. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #261,834 by Another Scott 7/15/06 11:47:48 AM Reply	Pop tastes change. The Bay City Rollers aren't too popular these days... Even if they had sucked up to those fans, they may have been squeezed out by newer acts. And don't forget that the Dixie Chicks aren't really a country group. [link\|http://www.frontpagepublicity.com/dxc/bio.html\|Bio]: When it came time to return to the recording studio, the Chicks knew that they wanted a new direction. Their last studio album, 2002's HOME, was itself a departure - a glorious celebration of their acoustic roots - so there was no obvious next move. They discovered that they shared a fondness for Rick Rubin's work, only to find out that he was a Dixie Chicks fan ever since seeing the trio "completely blow everyone off the stage" at a Sony Music function early in their career. When sessions began in Los Angeles in May, 2005, Maguire remembers Rubin saying, "I think this should sound like a great rock act making a country album, not a country act making a rock album." Beyond that, things were left open to see where the creative process would lead. "It was a very different style of working," says Maines. "You have to learn to relax and be OK with experimenting. We just knew we wanted to do something different, and that's scary." Artists are supposed to be driven to do things that are different and unexpected. That's what makes them want to do art in the first place. Be happy for them - I am. Finally, their latest album isn't [link\|http://www.dixiechicks.com/06_pressDetail.asp?newsID=616\|doing too badly], so don't worry about them. OK? :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #261,835 by bepatient 7/15/06 12:08:57 PM Reply	While this disk is doing ok, a large portion of what would normally be driven by radio play (which they aren't getting alot of thanks to her) is currently being replaced by media exposure surrounding the new release and the interviews related to her old comments. While they may be "fine, thank you very much" through this...its still, in my opinion, somewhat silly to attack a somewhat large portion of your fan base, in essence calling them idiots, if they are indeed what is providing your livelihood. You make think its true, and I've no doubt the opinion is largely true. But you would think they'd have learned a lesson. And we'll see, as the DC were the hottest thing going before her last go around, if indeed the backlash from these comments shorten's their span on "the scene" Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #261,853 by Ashton 7/16/06 1:20:59 AM Reply	Mob taste can change capriciously in weird times and if these aren't weird... (There are occasional periods when people actually prefer 'entertainers' with a spine to those who are well-managed, pretend everything's normal and just smile a lot.) 'Course fashion is ever fickle; once cheap gas and chances for a job improve, well - back to spineless. But what if -

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