Post #252,952
4/21/06 9:24:49 PM
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Well, the impeachment trial hadn't started, so one
could consider the pardon as part of a "pre-trial" plea agreement. Of course, that was not publically known until Ford did pardon Nixon. Nixon's agreement to resign could well be considered an admission of guilt. As a general matter, in clemency cases [link|http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardons3.htm|the correctness of the underlying conviction is assumed], and the question of guilt or innocence is not generally at issue. But, IANAL. Alex
When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
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Post #252,953
4/21/06 9:36:26 PM
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Impeachment cannot be pardoned
The Constitution [link|http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/|reads], ...and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
However they could try him for various other crimes, so the pardon was not without effect.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #253,010
4/22/06 10:21:07 AM
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That does make sense.
Alex
When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
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Post #253,043
4/22/06 10:31:56 PM
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Nit: Impeachment isn't a verdict, it's a procedure
Saying that you want to "pardon an impeachment" is like saying you want to "pardon a trial". Besides, a decision in an impeachment doesn't really say you were found to have done something illegal. It is a purely political process for removing someone from office, for actions that may or may not have been legal. IANAL but that's how I understand it.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #253,051
4/22/06 11:05:29 PM
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Impeachment removes a President from office...
...so that they can stand trial. Impeachment would be more like a grand jury.
Which brings up the question of whether an impeached president that was found not guilty in the subsequent trial. Could said President try to reclaim office?
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Post #253,053
4/22/06 11:30:58 PM
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Not quite
From [link|http://www.law.cornell.edu/background/impeach/|Legal Information Institute's Backgrounder on Impeachment]: The House of Representatives considers and debates the articles of impeachment. A majority vote of the entire House is required to pass each article. Once an article is approved, the President is, technically speaking, "impeached" -- that is subject to trial in the Senate. So "impeached" roughly means "indicted". It just means that there will be a trial in the senate. If that trial yields a "not guilty" verdict, the president doesn't have to reclaim office, as he was never removed from office. Although, from the same link as above: Technically, impeachment is the Senate's quasi-criminal proceeding instituted to remove a public officer, not the actual act of removal. Most references to impeachment, however, encompass the entire process, beginning with the House's impeachment inquiry.
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Post #253,054
4/22/06 11:33:56 PM
4/23/06 12:03:11 AM
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Not quite right.
They're only removed from office on conviction. Impeachment is a formal list of charges, yes, like an indictment. But impeachment has no sanction - only conviction does.
Johnson and Clinton were [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment|impeached] in the House. They weren't convicted in the Senate. They were not removed from office.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #253,057
4/22/06 11:45:12 PM
4/22/06 11:45:49 PM
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nevermind
Edited by dbishop
April 22, 2006, 11:45:49 PM EDT
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Post #253,065
4/23/06 12:30:43 AM
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Yeah, Senate Republicans decided that . . .
. . Clinton's definition of "is" had more long term value than a conviction would.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #253,067
4/23/06 12:36:18 AM
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If that was their thinking, ...
they were probably right. It's hard to imagine Bush winning against Gore if Clinton had been removed, considering the [link|http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/20/impeachment.poll/|approval ratings Clinton had at the time]: December 20, 1998
Web posted at: 10:48 p.m. EST (0348 GMT)
(AllPolitics, December 20) -- In the wake of the House of Representatives' approval of two articles of impeachment, Bill Clinton's approval rating has jumped 10 points to 73 percent, the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows.
That's not only an all-time high for Clinton, it also beats the highest approval rating President Ronald Reagan ever had.
At the same time, the number of Americans with an unfavorable view of the Republican Party has jumped 10 points; less than a third of the country now has a favorable view of the GOP. Emphasis added. Cheers, Scott. (Who had forgotten that little emphasized tidbit.)
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