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New like windows, its the perception of security that counts
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New It is more complex than that
People actively want slightly insecure systems. The classic example is our cars. Nobody wants their car to be broken into. But if any auto manufacturer produced cars that police officers etc can't break into after your key gets locked inside, you'd wind up with a lot of very pissed off people. That's why slim jims still work, even though it would be trivial to make a car that can't be broken into that way.

Everyone knows that some very technical people can read their emails. Everyone knows that some bad people can likewise. But their friends and aquaintances can't, so they have reasonable privacy. And the capability for violation isn't a big issue - in fact if they develop email problems, they hope those same technical people will be able to use their control of the system to solve their problems.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
     Kristen Nygaard and Programmable interfaces - (systems) - (86)
         What about his history is interesting? - (ben_tilly) - (85)
             Re: What about his history is interesting? - (systems) - (84)
                 You would do better to read Alan Kay - (tuberculosis) - (82)
                     Wow. - (Arkadiy) - (81)
                         Did you see HTML on the list? - (ben_tilly) - (79)
                             OK, could you explain? - (Arkadiy) - (78)
                                 I think the point is that they're tools that are pretty easy - (jake123)
                                 Here's an example - (tuberculosis) - (76)
                                     lrpd the whole damn thing -NT - (boxley)
                                     I admire your pattern of use for computers - (Arkadiy) - (15)
                                         Not necessarily so (the "beyond 90%" part). - (pwhysall) - (10)
                                             I've got no Mac (yet?) - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                                                 squeak.org -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                                 Python? - (pwhysall) - (7)
                                                     I've seen Python and Squeak - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                         I'm shocked, sir. - (pwhysall) - (5)
                                                             The 10% who understand things like - (Arkadiy) - (4)
                                                                 I've seen that smile - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                     The worst part is, she is righ. - (Arkadiy)
                                                                 DWIM?!? - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                     do what I meant -NT - (boxley)
                                         I don't believe the "crutch" is necessary - (tuberculosis)
                                         disagree, recently sent a example of an application - (boxley) - (2)
                                             A crutch - (Arkadiy)
                                             I need to have me a look at that - (pwhysall)
                                     I'd like that to be true, but don't think it is - (drewk) - (58)
                                         Ive used that treehouse design, didnt think too much of it - (boxley)
                                         You are a prisoner of your assumptions and conditioning - (tuberculosis) - (55)
                                             my point is that people use what they know - (boxley) - (2)
                                                 Yes - exactly - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                     sounds like a fax lnp project to me :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                             There's a central point we seem to differ on - (drewk) - (51)
                                                 Yes, you can only think of one thing at a time - (tuberculosis) - (50)
                                                     If I missed your point, it's because you forgot to make it - (drewk) - (49)
                                                         But the applications *are* the walls - (tuberculosis) - (48)
                                                             They're also inevitable - (drewk) - (47)
                                                                 Necessary for other reasons as well - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                                                     There's a couple projects aimed at addressing security - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                         Bah, break for lunch and people go and end the discussion -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                             I've made it back to the office - gotta catch up! -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                                                     email has walls? think again - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                         That's what client-side encryption is for -NT - (drewk)
                                                                         As far as most recipients are concerned, it does - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                             like windows, its the perception of security that counts -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                 It is more complex than that - (ben_tilly)
                                                                 I was the king of level 1 help desk - (tuberculosis) - (37)
                                                                     Followed a link from the google search - (drewk) - (35)
                                                                         Hey, I had people who didn't know a menu from a window - (tuberculosis) - (34)
                                                                             I don't want to keep reinventing things - (drewk) - (33)
                                                                                 Taxes are probably a bad example. - (Another Scott) - (32)
                                                                                     Depends on what you want an example of - (drewk) - (31)
                                                                                         Bingo - (tuberculosis) - (30)
                                                                                             You're fighting human nature - (drewk) - (29)
                                                                                                 Take your last thought a little farther... - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                 Evidence runs to the contrary - (tuberculosis) - (27)
                                                                                                     you can safely ignore drewk - (boxley)
                                                                                                     You have a much looser definition of "make stuff" than I do - (drewk) - (25)
                                                                                                         Complete Bollocks - (tuberculosis) - (24)
                                                                                                             You're kidding me, right? - (admin) - (23)
                                                                                                                 There will always be people too old to learn - (tuberculosis) - (22)
                                                                                                                     I'll let you tell her she's "too old" to learn - (admin) - (21)
                                                                                                                         It's also called respecting someone else's domain - (tonytib) - (20)
                                                                                                                             Point missed again - (tuberculosis) - (19)
                                                                                                                                 And you're missing the point we're trying to make. - (admin) - (17)
                                                                                                                                     I wouldn't say immaterial - (jake123) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         MP3 is a data format, not an architecture. - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Not my point - (jake123)
                                                                                                                                     I don't give a flip about your point - (tuberculosis) - (13)
                                                                                                                                         ICLRPD (new thread) - (boxley)
                                                                                                                                         Uh, yeah. - (admin) - (11)
                                                                                                                                             I don't have to bow to nobody! - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 Exactly. -NT - (admin)
                                                                                                                                             Right on! - (tonytib) - (8)
                                                                                                                                                 The ignorance around here is staggering - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                     We disagree with you, so we're ignorant ... good call -NT - (drewk) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                         Something about photos - not capable - links - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                             Something about Photoshop, easy to use, etc - (tonytib) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                 Heck... - (folkert)
                                                                                                                                                     The arrogance around here is staggering. - (admin) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                         Fine - you're all wrong and we'll leave it at that - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             As soon as you stop misrepresenting me I will - (admin)
                                                                                                                                 You keep missing the point - (tonytib)
                                                                     ICLRPD (new thread) - (lincoln)
                                         ICLRPD (new thread) - (jb4)
                         The idea is that these are tools for adhoc computing - (tuberculosis)
                 The short history.... - (ChrisR)

I see... dead people.
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