If anyone can get an authorised key

Post #244,390

2/13/06 11:09:41 AM

then anyone can craft software that runs. That's the point, after all.

If the keys supplied work (and work they must, to comply) and anyone can get one,without restriction (like the source) then the keys are essentially meaningless. It would be like locking your house with a lock you designed yourself, but leaving a bucket of (different) keys that work on your doorstep for any and all to take and use. What good does a lock do if anyone can get a key on demand? What's the point?

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #244,402

by ben_tilly

2/13/06 1:45:26 PM

I think I see Greg's point

The right analogy is that a lock has been designed which any number of keys can be made to fit, but only a small number fit by default. If we require that users can always make additional keys fit, then we get the benefits of DRM (you know only authorized keys will fit) with the benefits of the GPL (anyone can run what they want on their own machine).

That said, I think Linus is right. Managing this for end users is complicated. In practice people will either not modify keys at all, or will bypass DRM by allowing a key that everyone can use.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #244,407

by imric

2/13/06 2:02:40 PM

Hmmm. Hierarchy of keys.

So - say I create a program for, say a Tivo with a GPL3 kernel (big assumption, I know), Tivo's programs are guaranteed to be authorised, and I can authorise the program to run on *my* Tivo as well. Meanwhile the program I wrote wouldn't run on other Tivos without being specifically authorised? I can see that as having some utility...

Or a small number of keys that always work - which leads to your second scenario?

Am I reading you right here, or am I just being dense?

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #244,411

by ben_tilly

2/13/06 2:10:17 PM

You've got the idea

I was talking the first option, where Tivo's programs are guaranteed to be authorized but users can authorize more for their programs.

However after a while a third party will produce something useful, and every user who wants to use their software will have to authorize that third party's keys. If you want to use stuff from 3 people, you need 3 keys.

Before long users and developers managing this will decide that it is easier to just share a private key among developers. Then users only have to authorize third party software once, and they get lots of software.

So the first option, DRM but users can adjust who has permission, effectively becomes no DRM in the end.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #244,420

by imric

2/13/06 3:07:20 PM

*chuckle* But when your goal is no DRM...

...in the first place, that's not so bad either.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

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