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New Here's the proof.
    \r\n
  1. Yes, most spam zombies implement their own SMTP.
  2. \r\n
  3. You're talking out of your arse. What would YOU do?
  4. \r\n
  5. Part of being a good internet mail citizen is implementing proper reverse DNS. It's free. you wouldn't use an old version of qmail that can choke SMTP servers to death - that'd be rude - so why wouldn't you provide a proper reverse DNS?
  6. \r\n
  7. And yes, it does slow spammers down. It makes them go out to China and buy mailservers. It doesn't stop them, because zombie SMTP servers are not the only trick in their book.
\r\n

Anyhoo, here's some evidence that a completely privately owned mailserver can send mail to the IWE list. Mirrorshades is not commercial at all. It does, however, implement correct DNS.

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Feel free to play "spot the commercial mail server" in the headers. I'll buy a pint for anyone who does. (Timesaver: guildenstern.dyndns.org, love.warhead.org.uk, gibson.mirrorshades.org and crowley.mirrorshades.net aren't)

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Return-path: <iwe-admin@warhead.org.uk>\r\nEnvelope-to: peter@guildenstern.dyndns.org\r\nDelivery-date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:32:03 +0000\r\nReceived: from Debian-exim by ariel.tranquillity.lan with spam-scanned\r\n(Exim 4.52) id 1F5pcA-0003eb-Fy for peter@guildenstern.dyndns.org; Sun, 05\r\nFeb 2006 19:32:03 +0000\r\nReceived: from love.warhead.org.uk ([195.82.99.65]) by\r\nariel.tranquillity.lan with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1F5pcA-0003eX-96 for\r\npeter@guildenstern.dyndns.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:32:02 +0000\r\nReceived: from love.warhead.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by\r\nlove.warhead.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B66FA3C8B09; Sun,  5 Feb 2006\r\n19:32:01 +0000 (GMT)\r\nDelivered-To: iwe@warhead.org.uk\r\nReceived: from gibson.mirrorshades.net (crowley.mirrorshades.net\r\n[38.115.19.14]) by love.warhead.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 917C83C8B02\r\nfor <iwe@warhead.org.uk>; Sun,  5 Feb 2006 19:29:36 +0000 (GMT)\r\nReceived: by gibson.mirrorshades.net (Postfix, from userid 1009) id\r\nC094172; Sun,  5 Feb 2006 14:29:26 -0500 (EST)\r\nTo: iwe@warhead.org.uk\r\nMessage-Id: <20060205192926.C094172@gibson.mirrorshades.net>\r\nFrom: peter@gibson.mirrorshades.net (Peter Whysall)\r\nSubject: [IWE] wibble test\r\nSender: iwe-admin@warhead.org.uk\r\nErrors-To: iwe-admin@warhead.org.uk\r\nX-BeenThere: iwe@warhead.org.uk\r\nX-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12\r\nPrecedence: bulk\r\nReply-To: iwe@warhead.org.uk\r\nList-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.warhead.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/iwe>,\r\n<mailto:iwe-request@warhead.org.uk?subject=unsubscribe>\r\nList-Id: Infoworld Electric Horde Of Eclectic Yammerers.\r\n<iwe.warhead.org.uk>\r\nList-Post: <mailto:iwe@warhead.org.uk>\r\nList-Help: <mailto:iwe-request@warhead.org.uk?subject=help>\r\nList-Subscribe: <http://lists.warhead.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/iwe>,\r\n<mailto:iwe-request@warhead.org.uk?subject=subscribe>\r\nList-Archive: <http://lists.warhead.org.uk/pipermail/iwe/>\r\nDate: Sun,  5 Feb 2006 14:29:26 -0500 (EST)\r\nX-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on\r\nariel.tranquillity.lan\r\nX-Spam-Level:\r\nX-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham\r\nversion=3.0.4\r\nMime-Version: 1.0\r\n\r\nTest\r\n_______________________________________________\r\nIWE mailing list\r\nIWE@warhead.org.uk\r\nhttp://lists.warhead.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/iwe\r\n


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]\r\nUse P2P for legitimate purposes!
Expand Edited by pwhysall Feb. 5, 2006, 02:58:10 PM EST
New Speaking of which
How do I subscribe?

My old address has died.

New Click on the "Mailing List" link. >:-p
New Ooops
New In order:
  1. No, they don't. You saying they do doesn't make it so (ie, don't just insist - provide proof - and proof doesn't mean providing a couple of examples - show me proof that even a large minority do this): if it was that easy to stop spam zombies, everybody would do it. Warhead is the ONLY (repeat - ONLY) server that has rejected my mails - such a vast minority does not speak of wide implementation. Oh - I communicate regularly with folk on UK servers, so it's not even in wide use in the UK.

  2. I personally use filters and throwaway forwarding IDs that I can shut off at will - I don't prevent people from contacting me until I know they are spammers. I try not to be pro-active in annoying people. I may not always succeed, but at least I try.

  3. Because I don't implement my own DNS to the outside. I may have to eventually if sender id gets used, but it hasn't happened yet - probably because it wouldn't be any more effective than reverse dns crap.

    I could add a server, I guess. I'd rather not, simply to indulge nonsense like this. I could also just forward my mail through my ISP (I did that after the LAST time I was bit by this for warhead), but I'm too annoyed by this foolishness right now.

  4. So what? Again: I should add a server just to indulge warhead's ridiculous feel-good policy?


Now, what I WILL do is play with the setup at Register.com - that will only prove how ineffective and foolish the policy is, though (one word: noip.com). It's only a step shy of blocking anything that comes out of a dsl range of addresses. Throwing babies out with bathwater, and all that.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New Shrug
I've told you what you need to do to fix it.

Warhead is a free service that works for everyone on the list but you.

I'm not going to approach the owners and say "love the free ride, chaps, but could you please disable an aspect of your spam protection? One of my list members can't be arsed to set up reverse DNS on his private mail server".


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Didn't say you should.
I was fucking flaming the mindset behind it, not asking for support. It annoyed me. It's stupid and ineffective. It denied me, when I'm not a spammer. I'm an acceptable loss to an idiotic policy; so be it. Nor was I targeting you; I have a lot of respect for your expertise... but that kind of comment is not for THIS forum.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New BTW, (new thread)
Created as new thread #243503 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=243503|BTW,]

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New Doesn't work for me...
And using knight with proper and generic reverse names nix-es it for me.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New um err, provide reverse dns lookup? If you dont provide DNS
yourself for your own domaim you will be shut out of a lot, so either anonymise or set yersel up.
Sound like a 2 day ^h^h^h^h^h ^h drunk meeting for doc me n you to straighten it out :-)
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New The meeting sounds good...
But warhead is the only thing I've ever been shut out of.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New you might have a problem getting to me at work
if I hadnt whitelisted you.
thanx.
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Peter is right about #1
A very common trick in the spammers arsenal is to compromise a machine and then start sending spams as a variety of people.

In order for this to work you need to be able to forge mail as any person in the world, which is much easier if you have your own SMTP server. Not a very complicated SMTP server, but an SMTP server nonetheless.

Oh, you wanted proof? [link|http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/04/27/rise_of_the_spam_zombies/|http://www.theregist...the_spam_zombies/], [link|http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6150/products_white_paper0900aecd802571d2.shtml|http://www.cisco.com...ecd802571d2.shtml], and [link|http://www.spam-site.com/spam-zombies.shtml|http://www.spam-site...pam-zombies.shtml] demonstrate that this is a well-known technique that is widely used by spammers.

Cheers,
Ben

UPDATE: Brain fart. The "one person in address book to another" trick is virus authors, not spammers.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Expand Edited by ben_tilly Feb. 6, 2006, 04:22:59 PM EST
New Thanks...
TheRegister seemed surprised about trojans including an smtp server in 2003 - it was apparently rare then; I'd still like to see percentages, but I'll accept Cisco's use of the word 'common' for this technique now. If this technique works so well, then why doesn't everyone use it, I wonder?

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New port 25 blocking by the providers stop most of that
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Glad I've got Speakeasy, then
and Internet Express before that. I've never had trouble running my own - save once, when I was inadvertently relaying, and Speakeasy contacted me right away to let me know.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New ObLRPD - *gloat*
New *opens mouth to reply, then just shakes head instead*
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New I'm definitely not paying extra for spleen.
New Mmmmmm... gloat cheese!
New Is that an LRPD? If not, it should be!
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
New Ph34r the triple-recursive meta-LRPD.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New That's why I have a problem with history.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Chicken jokes!
ObYou'reAllFuckers
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New hemenez masterbation stories?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New That's a scary story.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
     Asinine mail server policies - (imric) - (30)
         So don't send mail from generic reverse DNS addresses. - (pwhysall) - (29)
             The hell it is. - (imric) - (26)
                 Here's the proof. - (pwhysall) - (25)
                     Speaking of which - (broomberg) - (2)
                         Click on the "Mailing List" link. >:-p -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             Ooops -NT - (broomberg)
                     In order: - (imric) - (21)
                         Shrug - (pwhysall) - (3)
                             Didn't say you should. - (imric) - (1)
                                 BTW, (new thread) - (imric)
                             Doesn't work for me... - (folkert)
                         um err, provide reverse dns lookup? If you dont provide DNS - (boxley) - (2)
                             The meeting sounds good... - (imric) - (1)
                                 you might have a problem getting to me at work - (boxley)
                         Peter is right about #1 - (ben_tilly) - (13)
                             Thanks... - (imric) - (2)
                                 port 25 blocking by the providers stop most of that -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Glad I've got Speakeasy, then - (imric)
                             ObLRPD - *gloat* -NT - (Another Scott) - (9)
                                 *opens mouth to reply, then just shakes head instead* -NT - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                     I'm definitely not paying extra for spleen. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 Mmmmmm... gloat cheese! -NT - (inthane-chan) - (6)
                                     Is that an LRPD? If not, it should be! -NT - (jb4) - (5)
                                         Ph34r the triple-recursive meta-LRPD. -NT - (drewk) - (4)
                                             That's why I have a problem with history. -NT - (folkert) - (3)
                                                 Chicken jokes! - (admin) - (2)
                                                     hemenez masterbation stories? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                         That's a scary story. -NT - (admin)
             It is the same problem from me... - (folkert) - (1)
                 I have reverse-DNS issues, too. - (static)

I had to wonder. What does a Drag Sheep wear? Wolf's clothing?
327 ms