Don't cry for Argentina

Post #24,176 by marlowe 1/13/02 7:30:34 PM 1/13/02 7:31:37 PM Reply	Don't cry for Argentina [link\|http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20020112/wl/argentina_dc_163.html\|With an attitude like this, they're their own worst enemy] Story: BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Reuters) - Argentina's already icy relations with the IMF took a turn for the worse on Saturday, with a top government official calling the lender's advice ''offensive'' and saying more time was needed to end a long recession. Argentina's Vice Economy Minister, Jorge Todesca, said the government did not appreciate comments on Friday by the International Monetary Fund's first deputy managing director, Anne Krueger, who asked Argentina for a ``coherent'' plan. ``Just a few days after we came into government, Ms. Krueger sent us a letter, which itself was quite incoherent, bringing up a series of points. It was unclear whether they were demands or not. I consider it to be offensive for Argentina,'' Todesca told local radio. ``They (the IMF) should really talk less, especially if they have nothing interesting to say, and they should let us work for a couple more days so we can stabilize the economy,'' Todesca said. ``Then we will have a plan to present to the Fund, so we can recover international aid.'' In December the IMF froze $1.3 billion in desperately needed aid to Argentina after a previous government could not rein in budget overspending. Argentina is mired in a four-year recession that has forced it to devalue its peso currency and default on part of its $141 billion debt. I say: This is why such a rich fat cat country as the United States maybe shouldn't do more to help the poor underprivileged countries of the world. Or at any rate, definitely not on terms of their choosing. I'm still a believer in the occasional foreign intervention, though. After all, what else do you with a nation caught in a self-perpepuating cycle if self destructive behavior, and in deep denial about it? But if we're going to do an intervention on a country, we'd best do it right. If we'd been more firm from the beginning with Diem in South Vietnam, well... it couldn't have been worse. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things. Edited by marlowe Jan. 13, 2002, 07:31:37 PM EST Expand All History
Post #24,215 by Ric Locke 1/13/02 11:21:53 PM Reply	May I shed a tear or two for a couple of people I know there, who are getting caught in the gears? The government deserves whatever bad stuff it gets. The slobs in the street are just acting on what they know, which is a milder version of Taliban-style education: The Leader Knows Best. Bow to Him. As seems to be usual in Hispanic countries (or, rather, those of South Mediterranean ancestry -- Argentina is more Italian than Spanish) the padron or caudillo gets much more respect than I personally think he should, and is able to lead as many into temptation as he might wish. Peronists are a weird sort of leftist Populist (think Huey P. Long), with a really strong tendency to Bread&Circuses or modern variations thereon. The people I know there (techs and internationalist business people) do NOT vote for them. Regards, Ric
Post #24,222 by mhuber 1/14/02 12:05:35 AM Reply	No kidding There are people there whose mortgages are in dollars and paychecks are in pesos. Didn't make any difference a few weeks ago, so who's going to argue a technicality like that with the bank? Oops... As in Enron, those responsible are well insulated from the consequences of their decisions. ---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Post #24,227 by kmself 1/14/02 12:43:50 AM Reply	An insider's perspective: Stiglitz & the World Bank The harshest, most biting criticism of the global monetary "relief" system has come from inside and the top: economist Joseph Stiglitz, who ran the World Bank until November, 2000. The system's broken. The reforms don't work. Salon [link\|http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2000/05/02/stiglitz/\|covers this well], Google [link\|http://www.google.com/search?q=IMF+stiglitz&btnG=Google+Search&hl=en\|tells much more]. For Stiglitz's own words, see [link\|http://www.jubilee2000uk.org/analysis/articles/IMF_Four_steps_Damnation.htm\|Four Steps to Damnation], also [link\|http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/10/stiglitz.htm\|The Atlantic], or [link\|http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/bwi-wto/wbank/stigindx.htm\|a paper archive]. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`
Post #24,230 by static 1/14/02 5:04:21 AM Reply	I heard something about this on the radio. It was something on [link\|http://www.abc.net.au/rn/\|ABC Radio National] last week that I unfortunately only heard part of, but it was someone talking about the history of the IMF and the World Bank. Basically, there were several competing proposals for this sort of international setup and one in particular involved a credit/debit system that charged countries an amount of the balance - which side of zero it was - to stay afloat. The effect would have been to encourage countries to maintain near-zero balances. However, the US didn't like it and had proposed basically the current IMF/World Bank system. They also issued a kind of ultimatum along the lines of "do it our way or we won't participate". The rest is history. It would have been nice to hear the whole program, but I didn't have the time. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #24,232 by Ashton 1/14/02 5:42:25 AM Reply	A much better model apparently is, the Grameen Bank Formed and generally run by women (last I heard), their policies of small loans to individuals, overseen more by peer pressure than anything like Lawyers Inc. - have produced startling results. I should look up the recent history - but even a few years ago the idea was impressive enough. NPR has periodically covered them docu-style, and I have read many reports. I rather expect that the local attention span is a bit too short, for present protests to have much effect upon the autocratic, elite and arrogant institution which the World Bank has always been. As the prof. mentions - they are determinedly anti-clueful, unaccustomed to criticism even of the constructive sort. Typically of autocrats, they deem any such to be a personal attack to be defended against - blindly. Still it's nice that there is finally some semblance of a movement to keep the spotlight on these few and too powerful individuals. May I be entirely wrong about the expected results. Ashton imagining what a mere $1B grant might do for expanding the policies of Grameen.. Hah. We don't really want the natives to achieve any sort of autonomy.
Post #24,253 by boxley 1/14/02 9:11:10 AM Reply	Yup dont want to let any of that good argentine beef into our country, let the bastids go broke. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be

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