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New Yes, this is a toy
but it portends a huge shift in development strategy with even more logic moving forward to the client.

How's you're javascript? Might need to brush up. This is just the first practical use of the canvas tag - I suspect much more will be along soon.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New What about SVG?
Problem right now is that SVG is being pushed as the client side graphing standard but no ones rushing to implement. The WHAT-WG and the other standards that attempt to incrementally improve DHTML also have a problem gaining traction. So what we have is a state where things are locked into the year 2000. Only improvement I've seen in DHTML pages in the last 5 years is Ajax.

In the meantime, you can always resort to [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=187774|drawing primitives]. Personally, I'd settle for a standard point and line primitives, with some rudimentary form of coordinate mapping. With those, I could construct classes to do bar charts, pie plots, cross plots, or any other form of shape or image.
New Its dead, Jim.
SVG was "standarized" and announced in 1999. Where is the support? That's a long time for so few (no?) implementations.

Here's a clue - its XML and thus probably stillborn. XML is just too complicated, parsers are a PITA to implement and heavyweight.

Canvas is here now on 2 out of 3 mainstream browsers.

This is why I now think HTML 5 will be the path forward and XHTML is going to fall by the wayside.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Dec. 16, 2005, 12:08:00 PM EST
New It's dead on the web.
It's in widespread use amongst the pixelpushers.

Adobe Illustrator, for example, fully supports it.


Peter
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Standardization process is broken
The whole standardization process over at the W3 has somehow managed to get broken. In the past couple of years they have put forth a whole pile of obscure narrow standards that are so complex, ugly and specialized that nobody has implemented them. One glance at XQuery (think SQL with a more akward XML based syntax) is enough to send people fleeing.

And the CSS 3 mess is beyond comprehension. The CSS 3 standard is so big, complex and inclusive that they may never manage to finish it. They have been working since 2000, and they already have 2008 dates on their tenative schedule.

Jay
New Have you ever served on standards committee?
Its not pretty.

Companies send the loudest and most opinionated people to the things - not their best techies. The best techies are busy getting important stragegic things done. The people at the committees are devoted to making sure competitors can't get things done. This goal isn't explicit - rather there is a lot of "one upmanship" and angling for competitive advantage.

I don't put a lot of stock in standards these days. I do put a lot of stock in code, capability and compatibility.






"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
     Graphing in Javascript using Canvas Tag - (tuberculosis) - (82)
         Nifty, but next to useless, unfortunately. - (admin) - (8)
             Only if you're supporting broken browsers - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                 Er... - (admin) - (6)
                     Yes, this is a toy - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                         What about SVG? - (ChrisR) - (4)
                             Its dead, Jim. - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                 It's dead on the web. - (pwhysall)
                                 Standardization process is broken - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                                     Have you ever served on standards committee? - (tuberculosis)
         And it crashes older browsers.... - (Simon_Jester) - (72)
             Cool! Makes you wanna upgrade! - (tuberculosis) - (71)
                 No. Makes me think the web designer is a jackass. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (69)
                     If a browser crashes - its not the designer's fault - (tuberculosis) - (68)
                         Strongly disagree - (ben_tilly) - (67)
                             I think we have different quality expectations of software - (tuberculosis) - (66)
                                 I seem to recall... - (Yendor) - (1)
                                     If it's valid HTML/CSS, that's a browser bug. - (pwhysall)
                                 Agree on the crash thing. - (pwhysall)
                                 I agree with you about well-written software - (ben_tilly) - (62)
                                     Not blaming the users per se - (tuberculosis) - (61)
                                         cf. Ada - (jb4)
                                         member of a working group now, know what ya mean -NT - (boxley)
                                         You might not be blaming the users... - (ben_tilly) - (58)
                                             problem is you are all not willing to use microsoft only -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                 The right analogy for that is... - (ben_tilly)
                                             Or the user is enabling bad coders - (tuberculosis) - (55)
                                                 Suppose I'm a user using an old browser... - (ben_tilly) - (54)
                                                     By this logic we should all stick to html 3.2 forever - (tuberculosis) - (53)
                                                         Go back to the root conversation - (ben_tilly) - (52)
                                                             And it hasn't been touched in over 5 years - (tuberculosis) - (49)
                                                                 In other words the 1% figure was a red herring - (ben_tilly) - (48)
                                                                     I'm not the one doing the punishing in this scenario - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                                                         You're not? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                                             One user's pain is another's pleasure - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                 Far too often... - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                                     He should not have to -NT - (broomberg)
                                                                     Is high-bandwidth streaming video a punishment? - (drewk) - (22)
                                                                         If you want to limit yourself... do that. - (folkert) - (18)
                                                                             No, they're being punsished - (drewk) - (17)
                                                                                 ICLRPDs. (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                                                                                 I wonder how Ben feels about stations - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                                                     Seems the US government is shoving this one - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                         IIRC - (jb4)
                                                                                     I think that the switch is fine... - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                 No, it is not punishing them. - (folkert) - (11)
                                                                                     I think you summarized my position pretty well - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                                                                                         Firefox is a 5MB download that works well on older computers -NT - (pwhysall) - (9)
                                                                                             Not on my old system - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                                                                                 Re: Not on my old system - (pwhysall) - (7)
                                                                                                     Is there a reason? - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                                                                         "Hu-mour". -NT - (admin) - (5)
                                                                                                             Can't be. It isn't funny. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                                                                                 Beg to differ - (drewk)
                                                                                                                 Maybe to *you* it isn't. - (admin) - (2)
                                                                                                                     of course they are misfunctioning, he's a father now -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                         Agreed - (broomberg)
                                                                         No - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                             Nobody? - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                 People aren't doing that? - (ben_tilly)
                                                                     I disagree - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                         Yes, the product is broken. But... - (ben_tilly)
                                                                     Also, aren't the users *choosing* to use a broken product? -NT - (pwhysall) - (17)
                                                                         Same question I offered Todd - (ben_tilly) - (16)
                                                                             Firefox, Opera, Safari, Camino -NT - (pwhysall) - (9)
                                                                                 Firefox, Safari, and Camino at least are broken - (admin) - (7)
                                                                                     Firefox and Safari - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                                                                                         Firefox dumps core fairly regularly for me - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                                             Firefox/Deerpark 1.5 beta weird for me on MEPIS. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                         Completely missing the point. - (admin) - (3)
                                                                                             Yep, I don't get your point - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                                 Re: Yep, I don't get your point - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                     So I should probably add something to my webpage - (tuberculosis)
                                                                                 What Scott said - (ben_tilly)
                                                                             Epiphany -NT - (drewk) - (5)
                                                                                 I haven't used it yet but... - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                                                     Well I feel silly - (SpiceWare) - (3)
                                                                                         And now I feel silly as well - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                                             Wheee! cha-ching cha-ching - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                 LOL - don't feel quite so silly anymore -NT - (SpiceWare)
                                                             He who pays the piper calls the tune. - (broomberg) - (1)
                                                                 I understand why it happens. I don't have to like it. -NT - (ben_tilly)
                 "The job is not done - (Arkadiy)

We fly with a sort of irrational confidence.
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