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New Java begins its decline
[link|http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051213_042973.htm|http://www.businessw...051213_042973.htm]

Java? It's So Nineties
Sun's groundbreaking programming language vaulted to popularity with Web developers. But now it's losing ground to a raft of upstarts

Peter Yared, CEO of software maker ActiveGrid, spent a critical chapter of his career steeped in Java, the programming language developed by Sun Microsystems (SUNW). In the late 1990s, Yared was chief technology officer of NetDynamics, which pioneered an application server designed to boost the performance of Web sites. It was based squarely on then wildly popular Java. He went on to spend five years as an executive at Sun. So it's especially surprising that Yared holds this view: "Java is a dinosaur."
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It certainly looks that way to me. I can hardly stand to wade through the noisy verbose syntax anymore. More to the point - I don't know anyone outside of enterprise IT using it for new projects.

Consider that Yahoo, eBay, Amazon, Google - none of these build with Java. Neither do the newer web companies like FlickR, delicious (just acquired by yahoo), Riya, 43Things, and digg just to name a few.

Java is the new C++ (hey - it got templates - that's about when I predicted its death) and thus the new COBOL.

s'bout time.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Correction. eBay uses Java.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Hmm, I thought it was .asp
Did they port it?




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New They did, but not the port you are thinking of
The first prototype was in Perl. They rewrote that in C++ a long time ago. Then after the site outages a few years ago they rewrote for scalability, and part of that rewrite was porting it to Java. (My personal opinion is that changes in the database architecture deserve more credit for the improvements in scaleability than the switch in languages.)

It currently is written in Java and runs on Windows.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Long road
Interesting. I don't often hear "runs on windows" and "rewrote for scalability" in the same breath.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New They throw Hardware at it.
Scalability means being able to spread the work out. Seems to me I recall they announced a "deal" with Microsoft and SUN. 2 processor 4GB of memory machines in blade form, can be as great as 144 Servers per 42U cabinet.

Add a cabinet of Windows servers... you get redundancy *AND* better performance. But at a cost that really sucks.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Sun would be for the databases
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New I agree with all of that but...
given that they are in the top 10 sites by traffic volume, their claim to scaleability is pretty good.

Now I personally believe that with a different platform they would be able to achieve significant savings, but their profit margins are good enough that it isn't an issue.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New So what do you think back-ends will be written in?
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
New SmallTALK. Duh.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Trend puts the lie
to the dogma propagated by the C++ now Java people that statically type checked strictly compiled languages with lots of boilerplate code are required to get reliability and performance.

Dynamic languages are more productive - that's the reason all the innovation is happening over there.

Java is a fairly specialized tool in that it only allows one kind of brute force programming approach to all problems. Yet its type model is anything but simple. The complexity (which is growing along the lines of C++) is in all the wrong places. Plus its boring.

I think 1.5 is just complicated enough with generics to have pushed it beyond the threshold where its costs outweigh its benefits.




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Trend puts the lie
to the dogma propagated by the C++ now Java people that statically type checked strictly compiled languages with lots of boilerplate code are required to get reliability and performance.

Dynamic languages are more productive - that's the reason all the innovation is happening over there.

Java is a fairly specialized tool in that it only allows one kind of brute force programming approach to all problems. Yet its type model is anything but simple. The complexity (which is growing along the lines of C++) is in all the wrong places. Plus its boring.

I think 1.5 is just complicated enough with generics to have pushed it beyond the threshold where its costs outweigh its benefits.




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Hey, we heard you the first time!
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New QWEST DSL - where you're never sure if you've sent
the very best successfully.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New I open another browser tab to check on such occasions...
New Yeah, I need to fix that.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
     Java begins its decline - (tuberculosis) - (15)
         Correction. eBay uses Java. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (6)
             Hmm, I thought it was .asp - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                 They did, but not the port you are thinking of - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                     Long road - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                         They throw Hardware at it. - (folkert) - (1)
                             Sun would be for the databases -NT - (ben_tilly)
                         I agree with all of that but... - (ben_tilly)
         So what do you think back-ends will be written in? -NT - (warmachine) - (7)
             SmallTALK. Duh. -NT - (pwhysall)
             Trend puts the lie - (tuberculosis)
             Trend puts the lie - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                 Hey, we heard you the first time! -NT - (jb4) - (3)
                     QWEST DSL - where you're never sure if you've sent - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                         I open another browser tab to check on such occasions... -NT - (Another Scott)
                         Yeah, I need to fix that. -NT - (admin)

Bond... James Bond.
90 ms