It feels like this essay might be appropriate here

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Post #235,444 by broomberg 11/21/05 10:47:34 PM Reply	It feels like this essay might be appropriate here Substitute Windows with KDE and/or Gnome as appropriate. [link\|http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm\|http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm]
Post #235,454 by static 11/22/05 12:53:51 AM Reply	That's good. +5 Informative. "Insert crowbar. Apply force."
Post #235,470 by ubernostrum 11/22/05 2:12:52 AM Reply	Actually. I'd never recommend anything try to be "more like Windows", for any reason, least of all a perceived winning of new users. I think Linux usability can learn a lot from the Mac, though -- there are many things that Apple has learned to get just right over the years (and, on the flipside, many things they've horribly fucked up; nobody's perfect), and the perception that "we don't do things that way" would hopefully be somewhat lessened by the fact that the Mac OS, too, is built on top of UNIX. \r\n\r\n And that essay seems, to me, to be verging on NIH syndrome. Not a good thing. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird? \r\n[link\|http://www.shtuff.us/\|shtuff]

Novell/SuSE moving to GNOME as default enterprise desktop - (pwhysall) - (128) - Nov. 10, 2005, 03:03:11 AM EST

Something tells me the KDE folks forgot to . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - Nov. 10, 2005, 03:33:56 AM EST

OTOH, SuSE founder and kernel hacker quits. - (Another Scott) - (3) - Nov. 10, 2005, 08:28:50 AM EST

Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Nov. 23, 2005, 09:24:45 AM EST

OT - any luck - (imric) - (1) - Nov. 23, 2005, 09:34:36 AM EST

Oh! - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 23, 2005, 02:49:38 PM EST

Never! - (ubernostrum) - (112) - Nov. 10, 2005, 11:06:44 AM EST

Sombody want to whack him with The Sign? -NT - (drewk) - Nov. 10, 2005, 11:36:33 AM EST

Heh, Gnome. It's still crap. - (imric) - (109) - Nov. 10, 2005, 12:07:09 PM EST

I lasted a while this time. - (static) - Nov. 10, 2005, 05:58:41 PM EST

It's the apps, stupid. - (pwhysall) - (15) - Nov. 11, 2005, 12:33:34 AM EST

That's brilliant! - (cwbrenn) - (4) - Nov. 11, 2005, 09:15:45 AM EST

The criticism stands, and is as follows: - (pwhysall) - (3) - Nov. 11, 2005, 09:21:37 AM EST

I'm not screaming "freedom..." - (cwbrenn) - (1) - Nov. 11, 2005, 10:19:06 AM EST

I know. - (pwhysall) - Nov. 11, 2005, 10:35:39 AM EST

My recollection is similar to BDR's. - (Another Scott) - Nov. 11, 2005, 11:10:59 AM EST

That's one of the reasons I keep checking it out. - (imric) - (9) - Nov. 11, 2005, 09:58:58 AM EST

Forget usability for a moment. - (pwhysall) - (2) - Nov. 11, 2005, 10:35:26 AM EST

EXACT opposite on Mepis - (imric) - Nov. 11, 2005, 10:56:31 AM EST

That is my biggest irritation about Linux distros - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 11, 2005, 01:34:34 PM EST

Spatial == ass, IMO - (admin) - (5) - Nov. 11, 2005, 11:19:45 AM EST

What is "spatial"? - (cwbrenn) - (4) - Nov. 12, 2005, 02:07:20 PM EST

Spatial: each folder gets its own window - (admin) - (3) - Nov. 12, 2005, 02:51:56 PM EST

Spring-loaded folders roxxor. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Nov. 12, 2005, 03:31:09 PM EST

They're patented by Apple. -NT - (altmann) - Nov. 12, 2005, 04:13:42 PM EST

That's one of the reasons why I prefer File Commander. - (Another Scott) - Nov. 12, 2005, 04:18:16 PM EST

Nobody's making you use GNOME. - (ubernostrum) - (91) - Nov. 11, 2005, 12:36:58 AM EST

ROFL - I know. - (imric) - (2) - Nov. 11, 2005, 07:05:03 AM EST

You undermine your own argument. - (ubernostrum) - (1) - Nov. 12, 2005, 12:17:12 AM EST

More stuff and nonsense. - (imric) - Nov. 12, 2005, 09:29:55 AM EST

Just to let you all know... - (folkert) - (87) - Nov. 11, 2005, 03:59:05 PM EST

Damn, I gotta meet somebody like that... - (inthane-chan) - Nov. 11, 2005, 04:13:56 PM EST

Greg? - (imric) - (85) - Nov. 11, 2005, 04:25:07 PM EST

Really? - (ubernostrum) - (82) - Nov. 12, 2005, 12:19:52 AM EST

Except that KDE actually works. - (imric) - (81) - Nov. 12, 2005, 09:33:18 AM EST

Works so well, in fact... - (pwhysall) - (4) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:17:36 AM EST

Skip uses Mepis. Mepis isn't dropping KDE. - (Another Scott) - Nov. 12, 2005, 10:49:44 AM EST

Yeah and did you see the uproar from the users at Novell - (imric) - (2) - Nov. 12, 2005, 06:17:35 PM EST

s/users/KDE developers/ -NT - (ubernostrum) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2005, 05:33:24 PM EST

According to YOU. - (imric) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:45:56 PM EST

Re: Except that KDE actually works. - (ubernostrum) - (75) - Nov. 13, 2005, 01:08:05 PM EST

Waiting for the ad hominem when you ran out of logic. - (imric) - (74) - Nov. 13, 2005, 05:05:35 PM EST

And yet you don't seem to have any responses. - (ubernostrum) - (73) - Nov. 13, 2005, 05:32:01 PM EST

ROFL. - (imric) - (72) - Nov. 13, 2005, 09:51:40 PM EST

Configurability. - (ubernostrum) - (71) - Nov. 14, 2005, 04:43:47 PM EST

Re: Configurability. - (admin) - (70) - Nov. 14, 2005, 04:54:01 PM EST

Re: Configurability. - (pwhysall) - Nov. 14, 2005, 05:04:01 PM EST

Removing options - (ubernostrum) - (68) - Nov. 14, 2005, 05:11:00 PM EST

Simpler to use, keeps use focused, reduces errors - (admin) - (67) - Nov. 14, 2005, 05:49:07 PM EST

Simple/Complex - (altmann) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2005, 09:05:52 PM EST

Re: Simple/Complex - (admin) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2005, 09:13:27 PM EST

hey! thats what I do for a living :-) - (boxley) - Nov. 14, 2005, 10:07:42 PM EST

When's the last time you looked at Nautilus? - (ubernostrum) - (59) - Nov. 15, 2005, 05:17:56 AM EST

And this invalidates my point somehow? - (admin) - (58) - Nov. 15, 2005, 10:15:14 AM EST

So which do you want? - (ubernostrum) - (57) - Nov. 15, 2005, 04:16:06 PM EST

That isn't his point. - (folkert) - (56) - Nov. 15, 2005, 05:00:50 PM EST

Re: That isn't his point. - (ubernostrum) - (55) - Nov. 15, 2005, 08:15:53 PM EST

So have we finally come back to GNOME usability? - (static) - (5) - Nov. 15, 2005, 09:15:50 PM EST

ObLRPD. - (Another Scott) - Nov. 16, 2005, 08:00:05 AM EST

You know, it's funny. - (ubernostrum) - (3) - Nov. 16, 2005, 11:01:33 PM EST

Re: You know, it's funny. - (altmann) - (1) - Nov. 17, 2005, 04:10:38 AM EST

I find it pretty handy. - (ubernostrum) - Nov. 17, 2005, 06:27:21 PM EST

I now see why you've been upsetting people in here. - (static) - Nov. 17, 2005, 09:03:35 PM EST

Please... - (folkert) - (48) - Nov. 17, 2005, 09:53:15 AM EST

Please... - (ubernostrum) - (47) - Nov. 17, 2005, 06:31:40 PM EST

Try at least reading your own posts - (drewk) - (46) - Nov. 18, 2005, 07:20:54 AM EST

That I did. - (ubernostrum) - (45) - Nov. 18, 2005, 05:33:11 PM EST

No you're not. You're not wondering at all. - (cwbrenn) - (44) - Nov. 18, 2005, 07:31:40 PM EST

Whoa, there, cowboy! - (ubernostrum) - (43) - Nov. 19, 2005, 08:24:55 PM EST

Points you missed. - (folkert) - (42) - Nov. 21, 2005, 01:50:54 PM EST

Re: Points you missed. - (ubernostrum) - (41) - Nov. 21, 2005, 07:53:33 PM EST

Last word I will speak to you. - (imric) - (6) - Nov. 21, 2005, 08:33:07 PM EST

Re: Last word I will speak to you. - (ubernostrum) - (5) - Nov. 22, 2005, 02:02:42 AM EST

There's this thing called "history". - (admin) - (4) - Nov. 22, 2005, 10:23:02 AM EST

And we know where calumniation leads. - (pwhysall) - Nov. 22, 2005, 10:24:11 AM EST

Ooh, I know this game! - (ubernostrum) - (2) - Nov. 23, 2005, 05:04:31 AM EST

Since you asked. - (admin) - (1) - Nov. 23, 2005, 08:00:27 AM EST

Let's try it again then. (new thread) - (ubernostrum) - Nov. 24, 2005, 09:13:04 AM EST

Actually, dung-for-brains, you didn't. (new thread) - (static) - Nov. 21, 2005, 09:22:31 PM EST

I really haven't paid much attention here - (bepatient) - (15) - Nov. 21, 2005, 09:46:38 PM EST

Re: I really haven't paid much attention here - (ubernostrum) - (14) - Nov. 22, 2005, 01:50:28 AM EST

Hmm - (bepatient) - (13) - Nov. 22, 2005, 02:08:15 AM EST

A couple things - (ubernostrum) - (12) - Nov. 22, 2005, 02:44:16 AM EST

Nits - (bepatient) - (11) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:06:33 AM EST

I never got it with Warp. - (pwhysall) - (4) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:08:47 AM EST

It wasn't pretty, granted - (bepatient) - (3) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:32:11 AM EST

And, it could be made quite pretty - (jake123) - (2) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:40:28 AM EST

I thought its font handling was spectacularly awful. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:44:15 AM EST

The early iterations of the TT handling _were_ awful - (jake123) - Nov. 22, 2005, 11:37:19 AM EST

Re: Nits - (ubernostrum) - (2) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:40:19 AM EST

OT: Please don't put things in quotes unless you're quoting - (Another Scott) - (1) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:59:33 AM EST

When I quote - (ubernostrum) - Nov. 23, 2005, 04:12:32 AM EST

He seems to be listening to you. - (static) - (2) - Nov. 22, 2005, 08:04:37 PM EST

Well. - (ubernostrum) - (1) - Nov. 24, 2005, 09:15:15 AM EST

Do you blame me for losing my temper? (new thread) - (static) - Nov. 24, 2005, 07:02:05 PM EST

Perhaps I see the problem. - (Another Scott) - (15) - Nov. 21, 2005, 09:57:05 PM EST

It feels like this essay might be appropriate here - (broomberg) - (2) - Nov. 21, 2005, 10:47:34 PM EST

That's good. +5 Informative. -NT - (static) - Nov. 22, 2005, 12:53:51 AM EST

Actually. - (ubernostrum) - Nov. 22, 2005, 02:12:52 AM EST

I agree with on this one, - (Moriarty) - Nov. 21, 2005, 10:55:52 PM EST

Actually. - (ubernostrum) - (10) - Nov. 22, 2005, 02:09:44 AM EST

The parent to this post summarizes the stymie perfectly. - (folkert) - Nov. 22, 2005, 09:20:57 AM EST

"Enlightenment by choice" - (broomberg) - (2) - Nov. 22, 2005, 10:48:59 AM EST

The WM is only one aspect of the environment, Barry. -NT - (pwhysall) - Nov. 22, 2005, 11:46:43 AM EST

To me, it's a simple dichotomy. - (ubernostrum) - Nov. 24, 2005, 09:21:44 AM EST

WEEEEEE! (Great gallopin' goshes) - (folkert) - (5) - Nov. 22, 2005, 01:23:47 PM EST

What hardware are you running that on? - (Another Scott) - (4) - Nov. 22, 2005, 02:27:46 PM EST

Re: What hardware are you running that on? - (pwhysall) - Nov. 22, 2005, 02:32:35 PM EST

Very Lean, comparatively - (folkert) - (2) - Nov. 23, 2005, 09:37:01 AM EST

OT: X's reported memory usage means nowt - (pwhysall) - (1) - Nov. 23, 2005, 10:36:06 AM EST

Yes, I understand that is the case. - (folkert) - Nov. 23, 2005, 06:14:02 PM EST

Points mangled too, though? - (Ashton) - Nov. 21, 2005, 11:10:27 PM EST

And regarding "focus" - (ubernostrum) - (3) - Nov. 15, 2005, 05:26:12 AM EST

Then explain how configurability causes lack of focus. - (admin) - (2) - Nov. 15, 2005, 10:18:33 AM EST

Again. - (ubernostrum) - (1) - Nov. 15, 2005, 04:24:46 PM EST

You sure about the JFK bit? I got doubts... -NT - (hnick) - Nov. 15, 2005, 04:40:59 PM EST

Yeah... I know. - (folkert) - (1) - Nov. 12, 2005, 01:46:27 AM EST

*smile* - (imric) - Nov. 12, 2005, 09:34:59 AM EST

Thats why I choose "none of the above" - (bepatient) - Nov. 10, 2005, 08:57:18 PM EST

Gnomes are so cute! I love that Travelocity guy! :0) -NT - (imqwerky) - (2) - Nov. 10, 2005, 09:21:19 PM EST

IFS -NT - (Silverlock) - (1) - Nov. 11, 2005, 09:23:45 AM EST

And you flushed me for saying Gnomes are cute. :-P -NT - (imqwerky) - Nov. 23, 2005, 11:37:00 PM EST

Well, wasn't that fun? - (pwhysall) - (6) - Nov. 23, 2005, 08:05:35 AM EST

Go away, this is good clean fun. - (admin) - (5) - Nov. 23, 2005, 08:14:17 AM EST

Mind where you're waving that thing. - (pwhysall) - (4) - Nov. 23, 2005, 08:20:03 AM EST

Well... - (admin) - (3) - Nov. 23, 2005, 08:58:58 AM EST

That wasn't my sister... - (pwhysall) - (2) - Nov. 23, 2005, 10:37:21 AM EST

I wouldn't have made that mistake - (admin) - (1) - Nov. 23, 2005, 05:18:00 PM EST

With *your* eyes? Puleeze. -NT - (pwhysall) - Nov. 23, 2005, 05:28:19 PM EST

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