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New Last word I will speak to you.
As I pointed out, KDE does NOT require configuration in the manner you suggest. In fact, I have not gone through what you describe in a long, long time.

GConf is a 'registry editor'. It is the same thing as regedit. It sucks for configuration. Your elitist attitude is showing.

"the structure required to present this level of configuration has a negative impact on usability for that large majority"

This makes no sense. If you are relying on so-called sensible defaults, the that structure has no impact on your "usability for that large majority". Making things a PITA for any of the remaining minority that may want to customise or support Gnome is not a helpful.. In short, it is a net minus for the usability of the desktop.

"But then, nobody else in this thread has had any problem putting words in my mouth"

Nobody has to do that, you do it yourself quite eloquently. I was responding to what you think are 'points', nobody made up anything about wwhat you were trying to say.

"Hey, that's just me"

Yes. It is just you.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
Expand Edited by imric Nov. 21, 2005, 08:33:07 PM EST
New Re: Last word I will speak to you.

GConf is a 'registry editor'. It is the same thing as regedit. It sucks for configuration. Your elitist attitude is showing.

\r\n\r\n

And I have said, at least twice now that I can recall in this thread, that I don't feel it's an ideal solution. I do feel it's better than "expose all options to all users all of the time", however.

\r\n\r\n

This makes no sense. If you are relying on so-called sensible defaults, the that structure has no impact on your "usability for that large majority". Making things a PITA for any of the remaining minority that may want to customise or support Gnome is not a helpful.. In short, it is a net minus for the usability of the desktop.

\r\n\r\n

OK, Interface Design 101 time. Each and every time you add some new element to an application's interface, even if it's "just a checkbox" or "just a toggle", it will have a certain impact on a certain number of users. A sort of usability calculus must then ensue, often involving one or more rounds of testing with actual users, to determine whether the number of users negatively impacted, and the amount of the negative impact on those users, is smaller than the number of users positively impacted and the amount of the positive impact on those users. If this turns out to be "no", then the new interface element generally should not be included.

\r\n\r\n

And as I have repeatedly provided reasons why exposing large numbers of often-esoteric configuration options to all end users often results in a significant negative impact for the majority of users, I find myself unabel to make sense of the rest of your argument here.

\r\n\r\n

Nobody has to do that, you do it yourself quite eloquently. I was responding to what you think are 'points', nobody made up anything about wwhat you were trying to say.

\r\n\r\n

I began this thread with some semi-joking comments about KDE. It quickly devolved into other people's assumptions that I am against configuration of anything, for any reason, at any time, and their attempts to belittle such a position. My own efforts to point out that this was not, in fact, my position and that I did not, in fact, advocate it seem to have gotten lost in people's knee-jerk reactions and exclamations that I was not responding to their points. I found this rather odd, as I tend not to respond to a strawman as if I held the position its creator claimed I did, because this tends to cement in the mind of its creator that his strawman is in fact a correct representation of my position. However, I chose to indulge and attempted to steer the conversation away from such hand-waving and fallacy, and in return was met with rudeness and flames.

\r\n\r\n

So. Nice bunch of folks you've got here, huh?

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
New There's this thing called "history".
I wasn't going to jump back into this, and I'm breaking a cardinal rule here for dealing with Internet naffheads, but please point out exactly where I said you were "against configuration of anything, for any reason, at any time".

The words should be easy to find, since I've responded to you a grand total of 4 times in this entire thread.

Until you do that you're just engaging in excuse-making and calumny.
-scott anderson
New And we know where calumniation leads.
oooOOOooo


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Ooh, I know this game!

My turn: I refuse to respond to you further until such time as you read, collate and reply to each and every point I have made in each and every post in this thread. Your replies must make use of blockquote tags to identify material you are quoting from another post, must provide a hyperlink to the post from which the quotation is taken and must not at any time use quotation marks in any fashion, in order to avoid the impression that material contained within them is a quotation from another user.

\r\n\r\n

Reading the most recent batch of replies from several people, it appears that these are just some of the rules by which all members of the ZIWT forums are expected to abide, and until such time as I see them observed I will not respond to any points you attempt to make.

\r\n\r\n

Because, you know, fair's fair, right?

\r\n\r\n

Seriously, though? While I don't think I ever said that you personally made such a statement, and I defy you to find where I claimed that you personally made such a statement, it was the conclusion toward which many replies from multiple people seemed to be tending, or the conclusion toward which they apparently hoped to lead me. As it is not a conclusion I agree with, and as it is a common strawman used by certain types of people when arguing against anything which involves the word 'usability', I have gone to extreme lengths to distance myself from it and from anything which gives even the appearance of attempting to lead me toward it.

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
New Since you asked.
[link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=235617|Post #235617]
Configurability, in and of itself, is not an evil, should not be unilaterally abolished, does not cause applications to lose their focus, does not cause global warming, and did not shoot JFK. And I don't care who or what they are, I will flame the everliving hell out of the next person who claims I said it does.
Emphasis mine. Now, since this is a direct response to a post of mine, I assumed that you were speaking directly to me.

And this is what I call a "conversational slide". Ignore most of the points in a post, nitpick a few things, and then make a claim (as above) which is then used to slide the conversation away. You've been pounding your shoe on the table and yelling about how everyone says you want to abolish configurability, while conveniently using it as a club to avoid talking about the precise points being made. Granted, you've answered some things, but only when dragged back around. Usually when confronted with [link|/forums/render/user?username=tablizer|this sort of troll], I use a [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=156381|single point, single post] technique. But you're a fairly boring troll, so I'm not interested in whatever meager entertainment you might provide.

IHBT. HAND.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Let's try it again then. (new thread)
Created as new thread #235846 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=235846|Let's try it again then.]
--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
     Novell/SuSE moving to GNOME as default enterprise desktop - (pwhysall) - (128)
         Something tells me the KDE folks forgot to . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
         OTOH, SuSE founder and kernel hacker quits. - (Another Scott) - (3)
             Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                 OT - any luck - (imric) - (1)
                     Oh! - (mmoffitt)
         Never! - (ubernostrum) - (112)
             Sombody want to whack him with The Sign? -NT - (drewk)
             Heh, Gnome. It's still crap. - (imric) - (109)
                 I lasted a while this time. - (static)
                 It's the apps, stupid. - (pwhysall) - (15)
                     That's brilliant! - (cwbrenn) - (4)
                         The criticism stands, and is as follows: - (pwhysall) - (3)
                             I'm not screaming "freedom..." - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                                 I know. - (pwhysall)
                             My recollection is similar to BDR's. - (Another Scott)
                     That's one of the reasons I keep checking it out. - (imric) - (9)
                         Forget usability for a moment. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             EXACT opposite on Mepis - (imric)
                             That is my biggest irritation about Linux distros - (ben_tilly)
                         Spatial == ass, IMO - (admin) - (5)
                             What is "spatial"? - (cwbrenn) - (4)
                                 Spatial: each folder gets its own window - (admin) - (3)
                                     Spring-loaded folders roxxor. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         They're patented by Apple. -NT - (altmann)
                                     That's one of the reasons why I prefer File Commander. - (Another Scott)
                 Nobody's making you use GNOME. - (ubernostrum) - (91)
                     ROFL - I know. - (imric) - (2)
                         You undermine your own argument. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                             More stuff and nonsense. - (imric)
                     Just to let you all know... - (folkert) - (87)
                         Damn, I gotta meet somebody like that... - (inthane-chan)
                         Greg? - (imric) - (85)
                             Really? - (ubernostrum) - (82)
                                 Except that KDE actually works. - (imric) - (81)
                                     Works so well, in fact... - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                         Skip uses Mepis. Mepis isn't dropping KDE. - (Another Scott)
                                         Yeah and did you see the uproar from the users at Novell - (imric) - (2)
                                             s/users/KDE developers/ -NT - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                 According to YOU. - (imric)
                                     Re: Except that KDE actually works. - (ubernostrum) - (75)
                                         Waiting for the ad hominem when you ran out of logic. - (imric) - (74)
                                             And yet you don't seem to have any responses. - (ubernostrum) - (73)
                                                 ROFL. - (imric) - (72)
                                                     Configurability. - (ubernostrum) - (71)
                                                         Re: Configurability. - (admin) - (70)
                                                             Re: Configurability. - (pwhysall)
                                                             Removing options - (ubernostrum) - (68)
                                                                 Simpler to use, keeps use focused, reduces errors - (admin) - (67)
                                                                     Simple/Complex - (altmann) - (2)
                                                                         Re: Simple/Complex - (admin) - (1)
                                                                             hey! thats what I do for a living :-) - (boxley)
                                                                     When's the last time you looked at Nautilus? - (ubernostrum) - (59)
                                                                         And this invalidates my point somehow? - (admin) - (58)
                                                                             So which do you want? - (ubernostrum) - (57)
                                                                                 That isn't his point. - (folkert) - (56)
                                                                                     Re: That isn't his point. - (ubernostrum) - (55)
                                                                                         So have we finally come back to GNOME usability? - (static) - (5)
                                                                                             ObLRPD. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                             You know, it's funny. - (ubernostrum) - (3)
                                                                                                 Re: You know, it's funny. - (altmann) - (1)
                                                                                                     I find it pretty handy. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                 I now see why you've been upsetting people in here. - (static)
                                                                                         Please... - (folkert) - (48)
                                                                                             Please... - (ubernostrum) - (47)
                                                                                                 Try at least reading your own posts - (drewk) - (46)
                                                                                                     That I did. - (ubernostrum) - (45)
                                                                                                         No you're not. You're not wondering at all. - (cwbrenn) - (44)
                                                                                                             Whoa, there, cowboy! - (ubernostrum) - (43)
                                                                                                                 Points you missed. - (folkert) - (42)
                                                                                                                     Re: Points you missed. - (ubernostrum) - (41)
                                                                                                                         Last word I will speak to you. - (imric) - (6)
                                                                                                                             Re: Last word I will speak to you. - (ubernostrum) - (5)
                                                                                                                                 There's this thing called "history". - (admin) - (4)
                                                                                                                                     And we know where calumniation leads. - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                     Ooh, I know this game! - (ubernostrum) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         Since you asked. - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Let's try it again then. (new thread) - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                         Actually, dung-for-brains, you didn't. (new thread) - (static)
                                                                                                                         I really haven't paid much attention here - (bepatient) - (15)
                                                                                                                             Re: I really haven't paid much attention here - (ubernostrum) - (14)
                                                                                                                                 Hmm - (bepatient) - (13)
                                                                                                                                     A couple things - (ubernostrum) - (12)
                                                                                                                                         Nits - (bepatient) - (11)
                                                                                                                                             I never got it with Warp. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                 It wasn't pretty, granted - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                     And, it could be made quite pretty - (jake123) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                         I thought its font handling was spectacularly awful. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             The early iterations of the TT handling _were_ awful - (jake123)
                                                                                                                                             Re: Nits - (ubernostrum) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 OT: Please don't put things in quotes unless you're quoting - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     When I quote - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                                             He seems to be listening to you. - (static) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 Well. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     Do you blame me for losing my temper? (new thread) - (static)
                                                                                                                         Perhaps I see the problem. - (Another Scott) - (15)
                                                                                                                             It feels like this essay might be appropriate here - (broomberg) - (2)
                                                                                                                                 That's good. +5 Informative. -NT - (static)
                                                                                                                                 Actually. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                             I agree with on this one, - (Moriarty)
                                                                                                                             Actually. - (ubernostrum) - (10)
                                                                                                                                 The parent to this post summarizes the stymie perfectly. - (folkert)
                                                                                                                                 "Enlightenment by choice" - (broomberg) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     The WM is only one aspect of the environment, Barry. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                     To me, it's a simple dichotomy. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                                 WEEEEEE! (Great gallopin' goshes) - (folkert) - (5)
                                                                                                                                     What hardware are you running that on? - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                                                         Re: What hardware are you running that on? - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                         Very Lean, comparatively - (folkert) - (2)
                                                                                                                                             OT: X's reported memory usage means nowt - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 Yes, I understand that is the case. - (folkert)
                                                                                                                         Points mangled too, though? - (Ashton)
                                                                     And regarding "focus" - (ubernostrum) - (3)
                                                                         Then explain how configurability causes lack of focus. - (admin) - (2)
                                                                             Again. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                                                 You sure about the JFK bit? I got doubts... -NT - (hnick)
                             Yeah... I know. - (folkert) - (1)
                                 *smile* - (imric)
             Thats why I choose "none of the above" - (bepatient)
         Gnomes are so cute! I love that Travelocity guy! :0) -NT - (imqwerky) - (2)
             IFS -NT - (Silverlock) - (1)
                 And you flushed me for saying Gnomes are cute. :-P -NT - (imqwerky)
         Well, wasn't that fun? - (pwhysall) - (6)
             Go away, this is good clean fun. - (admin) - (5)
                 Mind where you're waving that thing. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                     Well... - (admin) - (3)
                         That wasn't my sister... - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             I wouldn't have made that mistake - (admin) - (1)
                                 With *your* eyes? Puleeze. -NT - (pwhysall)

I don't want to write it, and you don't want to see it.
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