Post #23,536
1/8/02 4:19:54 PM
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Book alleges China had a hand in 911
[link|http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-08-2002/0001643577&EDATE=|Well, it figures, doesn't it?]
Excerpt:
TEMPE, Ariz., Jan. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- China will use the current global
crisis to launch itself as a new Super-Power and become America's new major
enemy, according to Gordon Thomas, an internationally recognized expert on
intelligence matters.
On September 11, 2001, the same day the World Trade Center and Pentagon
were hit by terrorists, a Chinese Peoples Liberation Army transport aircraft from Beijing landed in Kabul with the most important delegation the ruling
Taliban had ever received, says Thomas. He describes the ongoing threat from China in his new book, "Seeds of Fire: China and the Story Behind the Attack on America" ($25.95, Dandelion Books) available in bookstores, or at
[link|http://www.dandelionbooks.com|http://www.dandelionbooks.com] .
"Hours later, CIA Director George Tenet received a coded 'red alert'
message from Mossad's Tel Aviv headquarters that presented what he called a
'worst case scenario' -- that China would use a ruthless surrogate, bin-Laden, to attack the United States," says Thomas, who has over thirty years of experience as a foreign affairs reporter and investigative journalist.
The Chinese delegation had come to sign the contract with Afghanistan that Osama bin-Laden had asked for, that would provide the Taliban with
missile-tracking, state of the art communications, and air defense systems in exchange for the Taliban's promise to end the attacks by Muslim extremists in
China's north-western regions.
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.
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Post #23,569
1/8/02 6:46:38 PM
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Re: Mazing (actually amuzing) how these plots ...
are now poping up everywhere ....
one day its Bush & oil - next its reds in the bed ...
Makes for lots of amusing intrigue.
Cheers
Doug
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Post #23,580
1/8/02 7:55:53 PM
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Replay of - Dallas, Nov. 22, 1963.____SOP.
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Post #23,588
1/8/02 8:34:18 PM
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Reading some contrary reports
One report (thing it was on right-wing www.newsmax.com) said that the Chinese and everyone else in the world have been taken aback at how effective our low-presence high-bombing campaign has been.
In a country that eventually ran the Soviets out after ten years, we've essentially ended effective resistance after sixty days.
Woof.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
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Post #23,600
1/8/02 11:50:12 PM
1/8/02 11:56:05 PM
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Re: As said in another post
Behold the era of PAX AMERICANA - greatest era since PAX ROMANA
& I am not being funny. Deadly serious & grateful that I belong to a race that fits in with the US and that we speak the same language.
I don't believe there is any other Era that matches the Roman & American Empires - The British Empire was really colonialism as England never conquered Europe and also England constantly competed with European & Mid Eastern colonialism (Russia, Germany France, Austro-Hungarian Empire, Ottoman Empire etc: etc:) whereas US has conquered Europe per WWII and now economically.
The concept of an Empire as changed from Roman times to today where trade imperialism is the new Empire & US has shown it can amalgamated Trade & Military to achieve global dominance.
You can bet that China & many other countries are stunned at the depth and significance of US achievement in Afghanistan (I am !!!). I knew Bush's boys were good but they have proved stunning (Talibs are stunned senseless).
I now buy the argument that Republicans were chafing at the bit over Democrat Prez (Clinton) running US military down & showing how toothless he was at dealing with the growing external threats particularly the deeds of Islamic militants (Kashmir, Chenya, OBL & El Qaeda, Embassy bombings, Somaila debacle, etc: etc: etc:). No wonder they fought so hard to destroy Clinton while he was prez.
Cheers
Doug Marker
Edited by dmarker2
Jan. 8, 2002, 11:51:42 PM EST
Edited by dmarker2
Jan. 8, 2002, 11:56:05 PM EST
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Post #23,604
1/9/02 12:43:08 AM
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Do you read www.jerrypournelle.com?
He's got similar threads about Pax Americana.
I dunno about Pax Americana; I don't think we really care what other nations do to themselves. Most of Africa, we don't care what tribal warfare or genocides they indulge themselves in. Indonesia? Ah so what, they murder Christians by the hundreds, oh what the heck. Damn shame, but that's Indonesia.
We really don't give a damn about peace in the world.
But you hit us (aka the World Trade Center?) Now that's personal. We'll obliterate you and salt the earth. Well, we haven't salted the earth but we've sure damn near obliterated the Taliban who supported and hosted bin Laden.
Sudan, Iraq, Yeman - if you had anything to do with it, this would be a good time now to admit it, hang some people, and beg for mercy.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
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Post #23,612
1/9/02 4:48:55 AM
1/9/02 4:51:12 AM
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Re: Peace can mean different things
I am speaking of the historical impact of Roman rule - known as 'PAX ROMANA' - this is a reference term nothing to do with 'Peace among peoples' That is a Christian (religious) dream. Romans sacked pillaged & killed but imposed an era of stability known as PAX ROMANA.
PAX AMERICANA is a reference term - referring to an era of 'Peace' imposed by a world power on lesser powers thus 'PAX AMERICANA' - that doesn't specifically mean no war - just that the AMERICANA wins the wars & thus imposes PAX AMERICANA.
Cheers - Doug
Edited by dmarker2
Jan. 9, 2002, 04:51:12 AM EST
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Post #23,607
1/9/02 1:41:22 AM
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Yes, prolly Bill did slow down the World Domination engine
a few giga-$/week.. (20/20 is so much fun, especially for assigning prescience retroactively, no?)
Now if you want to ascribe the above motives for that immediate vendetta against Bill C. on his inagural, of that opposition to - their masterful grokking of all matters which led to 9/11 (despite the fact of Muricans' near complete unawareness of how a signifcant slice of the world's less-rich peoples 'view' us) - it's your right. I was here though: and it was simply Instant Obloquy, including the so-called Librul-press - from the get-go. For lots of religious and other cultural reasons having zippo whatsoever to do with.. magical Islam-awareness, IMhO.
Still.. and personally - I believe we lack the maturity (and assuredly the subtlety) for running a World-sized Empire: from the top du jour, on through the Corporate bizness leaders who set the priorities [$$ acquisition but Not distribution] - and on down to the mass of consumers.. who don't want to be interrupted in their grazing - by such complex matters.
But even if that were our Destiny for the next little series of wars (?) I can still see no way around the problem that Power Corrupts. The Billy files demonstrate just one level of our present internal corruption (pre- and post- 9/11). If there emerges next no coalition (?) to provide the Balance of Power of yesteryear - familiar to all students of mere HS history classes:
Well, I can see a trend there, as in all previous like situations. Glad you find it a likeable trend, but afraid I can't join you in projecting our Final Victory Over Evil\ufffd. Er.. maybe sippin on the champagne a bit? Heady stuff.
Ashton
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Post #23,611
1/9/02 4:46:04 AM
1/9/02 4:54:35 AM
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Re: snuthing t'do with good & evil (mere perceptions) ...
It is to do with Power. US has the power thru technology & trade. Will protect it in ways that are stunning the opposition. Power today is still very much control of oil resources (well cheap access to oil reserves). Reason China is a potential threat is it might want oil that the US wants & US *won't* let that happen.
US & allies had to struggle hard during post war era, against opposing ideologys & threats but by the 70s the battle was being won.
I see PAX America ans an era, nothing to do with peace other than as long as US dominates it will be Peace on US terms (else take the consequences).
In PAX AMERICANA - the evil ones are those that are labelled evil ones. The freedom lovers & freedom fighters are the ones labelled as such.
Reagan got away with calling the murderous swine known as 'Contras' as freedom fighters cos PAX AMERICANA decreed them to be such.
It is worth taking a look at what happens to *any* independant Arab leader who becomes popular in all or part or parts the Arab world - they get emasculated & labelled as evil by us (grin) - we pull their teeth & cut off their balls & if that isn't enough we line up for another go (Hussain).
Nasser of Egypt
Kaddafi of Libia
Kohmeni of Iran
Hussain of Iraq
Omar of Afghanistan
Bin Laden of ?????? (well maybe he is the best fit for a dick-head evil leader)
Why do we squash popular Arab leaders, cos the bastards might sieze control of 'our' oil. So we divide & conquer (& snip their leaders down to size)
& because I'm on our side - I support it - just like Ollie North did (grin). I have no illusions about 'new world order' (Bush Snr's name for PAX Americana) or 'war against evil' or 'fight against terrorism'. But who ever instigated the Sept 11 attack was deeply evil no matter what provocation they justify it with. Interestingly the effect of it is to cement US position as the dominant world superpower & never to be trifled with (& good thing too).
Doug Marker
Edited by dmarker2
Jan. 9, 2002, 04:54:35 AM EST
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Post #23,614
1/9/02 6:29:30 AM
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Ah.. well, on That basis
:-\ufffd
WTF not?
All the world's a stage. And since Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac (and everyone knows how That segues into a major obsession.. in all Puritan-derived cultures. Just look at our National hangups) - then we'd have to agree that your scenario is about the only er 'Plan' our mindset Could imagine.
Still.. the nearer that Power approaches Absolute: the nearer the results are apt to be as ugly - whether under the rubric of Xianity, Allah or Cthulhu. And here, the 'wealth' shall stay firmly under the control of the 3-5% = the accelerating gap between the average (and especially the majority): I see the practical effects of that, describing the ~internal mechanism of deterioration here; never mind the inevitable counterattacks from the remaining 7.8 billions out there, all getting short-changed on world's resources. Thus banding together in discontent.
That's as inevitable as.. the instinct to escape, when in any prison camp.
As I said, I don't think we can protect ourselves from.. ourselves and this process. Nobody wise around - just bizness-clever droids all around. And that - is simply the fine art of scamming to get all the marbles. Tawdry, pecuniary, divisive. Also dumb. Marshall Plan could be wise. But we won't do that.
But I could be wrong, at least for a few years. We'll get used to watching our backs - everywhere we go - including in Ashcroft Fortress Murica. The massaging has already begun: Help the War Effort. Go and Spend! - even if you're being downsized. (Or maybe not til next March, you can hope).
{sigh}
Ashton
Pace pace O mio Dio
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Post #23,637
1/9/02 12:01:39 PM
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How deep was that victory?
Top Taliban officials (Justice and Defence minister) have been amnested by Korzai. The pre-Taliban warlords are back in control, killing and robbing local populace. The return of Taliban (or something worse) is still a possibility. And, as a guy who spent 10 years in Afghanistan said on NPR, "there is no glory for America in that victory". We did not accomplish (at least not yet) what Soviets failed to do. They wanted a Lenin statue at every corner. We want a McDonald's on every block. One misstep, and Afghans will kill us just as fiercely as they killed Soviets.
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Post #23,660
1/9/02 4:12:08 PM
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I would like to belive that, a handful of career folk in
State Dept. - are fully aware of this. What is handed out by the flaks for public flag-waving is - naturally - pabulum with ringing slogans. Remember The Five Minutes of Hate ?? (Oceania was the target then).
Still, by that evanescent combo of pretty good execution and.. luck - I'd say that our accomplishment is not a trivial one; we have evaded numerous pitfalls (but certainly not all):
For one thing.. the wholesale seeding of the country with ugly cluster bombs.. shall haunt US as the casualties continue for years - reminding Afghanis and all, that these behave just like land mines (due to their Microsloth-style fuzing mechanisms.. with a poorer performance than Windoze + IIS + Exchange).
Not to worry.. the future lies ahead (\ufffd Any Pol on a stump). There's plenty left to fuck up and, hubris.. will ensure a few of those. Collateral Damage\ufffd may join Arbeit Macht Frei in the glossary of infamous euphemisms...
Ashton
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Post #23,694
1/9/02 8:15:34 PM
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Re: Local warlord tells Kabul G/F***** - releases Talibanis
Seems local warlord's interest in Kabul is knowing which direction it is and little else.
The 3 seniro Taliban leaders were released yesterday - 'Kabul' govt is investigating - regional warlords continue to do what they want :-) which is to make money however & whenever they can.
Cheers
Doug
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