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New Forget usability for a moment.
Let's talk about testing.

Now, most [Ff]ree software in this world is tested in a "ship it to the users and see if they break it" kind of way, assuming of course the developers don't just adopt a "it compiles, ship/commit it" methodology.

This produces the kind of stability we've come to know and love. There's a cute KDE Krash Wizard thing. GNOME has something similar - Bug Buddy, I think it's called.

Every option, every checkbox and every slider produces a codepath that needs testing - and not just unit testing, but integration testing. KDE's configurability has brought it to the point of essential untestability - and this is borne out by observing the number of times the KDE Krash Kollektor pops up - in my recent (KDE 3.4 for a week) experiment, I saw it daily, reporting Krashes for all sorts of things; I mean, the panel (inexplicably called "kicker") had a very wobbly afternoon.

If you're an extremist, every configuration option represents a design decision that was shirked by the application designer.

Take a simple thing. OS X buttons. You can make them Aqua (pretty colours) or Graphite (grey). Why does Graphite exist? Is this a design decision that is shirked? Well, sort of. Graphite exists because you can't have spangly buttons in spangly colours if you're trying to do subtle colour work (if you're a professional designer or artist).

The purist in me says "Well, make them graphite all the time, then, and never mind having spangly things. Don't you people have work to do?"

The realist says "OK, give people the choice, but keep it simple; spangly or not-spangly. This provides the sensible limit on what we've got to test."

In KDE, I can not only change my buttons, but their colour, contrast, style, window style. And in the window style, I can move my buttons around (depending on whether the window style them supports this). With my software testing hat on, there's corner cases and whatnot all over this, but you can bet your arse it's been tested on the "well, no-one's filed a bug on it so it must be perfick" approach.

(The snark in me observes that of all the themes and styles and stuff shipped with KDE, there's not a single one that doesn't look like arse, but that's just me).

We've talked an awful lot about usability, but software that stays up is more usable than software that's just shown you the KDE Krash Kollector or the GNOME buG Buddy.

GNOME 2.10 crashes less than KDE on the same linux distro (Ubuntu) than KDE 3.4.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New EXACT opposite on Mepis
Where Gnome crashes, and runs poorly if at all. When it runs, functionality is, well, reduced.

KDE is rock solid, never crashes, and I have NEVER SEEN the crash wizard thing you are talking about... And I got KDE3.4 by updating from 3.3 via apt.

Perhaps it is the less vetted/experimental things that Ubuntu uses? You know the focus is NOT on KDE there. I don't go over the 'unstable' branch, myself.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New That is my biggest irritation about Linux distros
It is not true that free software all just ships and is tested by users. There are many segments of the community which have strong testing philosophies. For instance any decent CPAN module comes with regression tests.

However Linux distributions inevitably throw out all of these tests. I know that my Ubuntu distribution has problems with the locale. When I install CPAN modules by hand, their tests break on that. But the same CPAN modules are available from within Ubuntu, and I have every reason to believe that they still would not pass their unit tests. But there is no way that someone using the Linux distribution would notice that fact. And it is far from obvious where someone like me should report the bug.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
     Novell/SuSE moving to GNOME as default enterprise desktop - (pwhysall) - (128)
         Something tells me the KDE folks forgot to . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
         OTOH, SuSE founder and kernel hacker quits. - (Another Scott) - (3)
             Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                 OT - any luck - (imric) - (1)
                     Oh! - (mmoffitt)
         Never! - (ubernostrum) - (112)
             Sombody want to whack him with The Sign? -NT - (drewk)
             Heh, Gnome. It's still crap. - (imric) - (109)
                 I lasted a while this time. - (static)
                 It's the apps, stupid. - (pwhysall) - (15)
                     That's brilliant! - (cwbrenn) - (4)
                         The criticism stands, and is as follows: - (pwhysall) - (3)
                             I'm not screaming "freedom..." - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                                 I know. - (pwhysall)
                             My recollection is similar to BDR's. - (Another Scott)
                     That's one of the reasons I keep checking it out. - (imric) - (9)
                         Forget usability for a moment. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             EXACT opposite on Mepis - (imric)
                             That is my biggest irritation about Linux distros - (ben_tilly)
                         Spatial == ass, IMO - (admin) - (5)
                             What is "spatial"? - (cwbrenn) - (4)
                                 Spatial: each folder gets its own window - (admin) - (3)
                                     Spring-loaded folders roxxor. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         They're patented by Apple. -NT - (altmann)
                                     That's one of the reasons why I prefer File Commander. - (Another Scott)
                 Nobody's making you use GNOME. - (ubernostrum) - (91)
                     ROFL - I know. - (imric) - (2)
                         You undermine your own argument. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                             More stuff and nonsense. - (imric)
                     Just to let you all know... - (folkert) - (87)
                         Damn, I gotta meet somebody like that... - (inthane-chan)
                         Greg? - (imric) - (85)
                             Really? - (ubernostrum) - (82)
                                 Except that KDE actually works. - (imric) - (81)
                                     Works so well, in fact... - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                         Skip uses Mepis. Mepis isn't dropping KDE. - (Another Scott)
                                         Yeah and did you see the uproar from the users at Novell - (imric) - (2)
                                             s/users/KDE developers/ -NT - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                 According to YOU. - (imric)
                                     Re: Except that KDE actually works. - (ubernostrum) - (75)
                                         Waiting for the ad hominem when you ran out of logic. - (imric) - (74)
                                             And yet you don't seem to have any responses. - (ubernostrum) - (73)
                                                 ROFL. - (imric) - (72)
                                                     Configurability. - (ubernostrum) - (71)
                                                         Re: Configurability. - (admin) - (70)
                                                             Re: Configurability. - (pwhysall)
                                                             Removing options - (ubernostrum) - (68)
                                                                 Simpler to use, keeps use focused, reduces errors - (admin) - (67)
                                                                     Simple/Complex - (altmann) - (2)
                                                                         Re: Simple/Complex - (admin) - (1)
                                                                             hey! thats what I do for a living :-) - (boxley)
                                                                     When's the last time you looked at Nautilus? - (ubernostrum) - (59)
                                                                         And this invalidates my point somehow? - (admin) - (58)
                                                                             So which do you want? - (ubernostrum) - (57)
                                                                                 That isn't his point. - (folkert) - (56)
                                                                                     Re: That isn't his point. - (ubernostrum) - (55)
                                                                                         So have we finally come back to GNOME usability? - (static) - (5)
                                                                                             ObLRPD. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                             You know, it's funny. - (ubernostrum) - (3)
                                                                                                 Re: You know, it's funny. - (altmann) - (1)
                                                                                                     I find it pretty handy. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                 I now see why you've been upsetting people in here. - (static)
                                                                                         Please... - (folkert) - (48)
                                                                                             Please... - (ubernostrum) - (47)
                                                                                                 Try at least reading your own posts - (drewk) - (46)
                                                                                                     That I did. - (ubernostrum) - (45)
                                                                                                         No you're not. You're not wondering at all. - (cwbrenn) - (44)
                                                                                                             Whoa, there, cowboy! - (ubernostrum) - (43)
                                                                                                                 Points you missed. - (folkert) - (42)
                                                                                                                     Re: Points you missed. - (ubernostrum) - (41)
                                                                                                                         Last word I will speak to you. - (imric) - (6)
                                                                                                                             Re: Last word I will speak to you. - (ubernostrum) - (5)
                                                                                                                                 There's this thing called "history". - (admin) - (4)
                                                                                                                                     And we know where calumniation leads. - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                     Ooh, I know this game! - (ubernostrum) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         Since you asked. - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Let's try it again then. (new thread) - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                         Actually, dung-for-brains, you didn't. (new thread) - (static)
                                                                                                                         I really haven't paid much attention here - (bepatient) - (15)
                                                                                                                             Re: I really haven't paid much attention here - (ubernostrum) - (14)
                                                                                                                                 Hmm - (bepatient) - (13)
                                                                                                                                     A couple things - (ubernostrum) - (12)
                                                                                                                                         Nits - (bepatient) - (11)
                                                                                                                                             I never got it with Warp. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                 It wasn't pretty, granted - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                     And, it could be made quite pretty - (jake123) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                         I thought its font handling was spectacularly awful. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             The early iterations of the TT handling _were_ awful - (jake123)
                                                                                                                                             Re: Nits - (ubernostrum) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 OT: Please don't put things in quotes unless you're quoting - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     When I quote - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                                             He seems to be listening to you. - (static) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 Well. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     Do you blame me for losing my temper? (new thread) - (static)
                                                                                                                         Perhaps I see the problem. - (Another Scott) - (15)
                                                                                                                             It feels like this essay might be appropriate here - (broomberg) - (2)
                                                                                                                                 That's good. +5 Informative. -NT - (static)
                                                                                                                                 Actually. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                             I agree with on this one, - (Moriarty)
                                                                                                                             Actually. - (ubernostrum) - (10)
                                                                                                                                 The parent to this post summarizes the stymie perfectly. - (folkert)
                                                                                                                                 "Enlightenment by choice" - (broomberg) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     The WM is only one aspect of the environment, Barry. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                     To me, it's a simple dichotomy. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                                 WEEEEEE! (Great gallopin' goshes) - (folkert) - (5)
                                                                                                                                     What hardware are you running that on? - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                                                         Re: What hardware are you running that on? - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                         Very Lean, comparatively - (folkert) - (2)
                                                                                                                                             OT: X's reported memory usage means nowt - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 Yes, I understand that is the case. - (folkert)
                                                                                                                         Points mangled too, though? - (Ashton)
                                                                     And regarding "focus" - (ubernostrum) - (3)
                                                                         Then explain how configurability causes lack of focus. - (admin) - (2)
                                                                             Again. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                                                 You sure about the JFK bit? I got doubts... -NT - (hnick)
                             Yeah... I know. - (folkert) - (1)
                                 *smile* - (imric)
             Thats why I choose "none of the above" - (bepatient)
         Gnomes are so cute! I love that Travelocity guy! :0) -NT - (imqwerky) - (2)
             IFS -NT - (Silverlock) - (1)
                 And you flushed me for saying Gnomes are cute. :-P -NT - (imqwerky)
         Well, wasn't that fun? - (pwhysall) - (6)
             Go away, this is good clean fun. - (admin) - (5)
                 Mind where you're waving that thing. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                     Well... - (admin) - (3)
                         That wasn't my sister... - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             I wouldn't have made that mistake - (admin) - (1)
                                 With *your* eyes? Puleeze. -NT - (pwhysall)

I don’t need to see anyone celebrate breaking a huddle…
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