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New ROFL - I know.
I'm not one of the 'there can be only one' distro/desktop/office suite/webserver/whatever crowd.

What you (and the Gnomes, apparently) don't get is that having the option to configure something doesn't meant it will be used by the rank-and-file. The idea that nailing settings down is even desireable is blown out of the water by the swift appearance of configuration utilities like tweakui. Hell, look at Windows. Windows tweakui is one of the most popular utilities, and the ability to do more than change themes and wallpaper.

No, I see it as both wanting to dictate the 'user experience' and having an excuse not to flesh out the configuration system.

As for your assertion that KDE is for geeks that spend months tricking out their desktops, understand this - it is extremeley rare that I change desktop settings. My distro came with sane defaults, I neither had any kind of major initial configuration dance, nor do I spend the exorbitant amount of time searching for options that anti-KDE gnomes seem to assert happens. It's a bogus set of arguments, used to reassure that Gnome is on the right track. Having the ability to configure does NOT force anyone to use it.

It's not, IMO.

As for the rest, well, the major reason I don't use it is that it's slow, bloated, and doesn't work right. It's not worth my time, yet. I'll continue to experiment as new releases appear, but my expectations have been dropping, not rising. This is not a good thing.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New You undermine your own argument.

If the sane defaults provided by your distro are good enough that you don't have to change them, then why aren't you whining that your distro's KDE is broken and dumbed-down?

\r\n\r\n

Also, all the configuration options are still right there in GConf, and accessible via a GUI application that ships with GNOME and is in the menu system by default. And several of the options people use the gtweakui app for have become more configurable in subsequent GNOME releases.

\r\n\r\n

What this is about is not dictating "this is the one true way, and don't you dare change it". What this is about is offering a small, sane set of the preferences most likely to be changed by most users. "Power users" who want to trick out everything still have access to all the available prefs, but bombarding Joe Sixpack with hundreds of settings he's likely never to use is just a bad idea; it wastes his time, it's confusing, and it makes him more likely to break things.

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
New More stuff and nonsense.
If the sane defaults provided by your distro are good enough that you don't have to change them, then why aren't you whining that your distro's KDE is broken and dumbed-down?


You're not listening. I'm not surprised. I have no problem with defaults. I have a problem with making it deliberately difficult to change them. That in effect nails them down. Look, I don't know how old you are, do you remember what REALLY made Windows popular? Not useful, popular.

It was the ability to customise it. The ability to tweak it, to REALLY make it 'yours'. That's why tweakUI and related animals are among the most popular utilities in existence. If your point had any muscle behind it, there WOULD BE NO TWEAKUI FOR GNOME. No need for a tool that makes it easy for casual users to change the settings you and the Gnomes say that users don't want to change anyway, and that power users are satisfied to used Gconf to do.

IOW, you're blowing smoke - again.

bombarding Joe Sixpack with hundreds of settings he's likely never to use is just a bad idea; it wastes his time, it's confusing, and it makes him more likely to break things.


Something I don't see, as I said, and with good defaults don't generally need to change. In order to justify your stance, you make up stories about 'what users do with KDE'. I call bullshit on this claim right now. Casual KDE users DON'T spend an inordinate amount of time crawling over the config screens after KDE is set up; instead I believe this myth is part of the rationalisation that Gnomies are using to justify the LACK of configurability on their 'chosen desktop'. The idea of sane defaults I agree with (how could I not?). I do think the Gnomish defaults are annoying and clutter up my desktop, though. So much for vaunted usability, huh.

all the configuration options are still right there in GConf, and accessible via a GUI application that ships with GNOME and is in the menu system by default


But Oh! I can go into the Registry on Windows too, to make changes! And Look! It Has A Gui App, Too - regedit. That makes everything all right.

Bah.

And - by the way - when the samba browsing didn't work on Nautilus last time (that piece of crud) nobody could tell me how to even look at the settings, more or less change them. Making it hard for a home user to admin and service a system, oh, yeah, that's a good thing too. Right? Right?
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
     Novell/SuSE moving to GNOME as default enterprise desktop - (pwhysall) - (128)
         Something tells me the KDE folks forgot to . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
         OTOH, SuSE founder and kernel hacker quits. - (Another Scott) - (3)
             Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                 OT - any luck - (imric) - (1)
                     Oh! - (mmoffitt)
         Never! - (ubernostrum) - (112)
             Sombody want to whack him with The Sign? -NT - (drewk)
             Heh, Gnome. It's still crap. - (imric) - (109)
                 I lasted a while this time. - (static)
                 It's the apps, stupid. - (pwhysall) - (15)
                     That's brilliant! - (cwbrenn) - (4)
                         The criticism stands, and is as follows: - (pwhysall) - (3)
                             I'm not screaming "freedom..." - (cwbrenn) - (1)
                                 I know. - (pwhysall)
                             My recollection is similar to BDR's. - (Another Scott)
                     That's one of the reasons I keep checking it out. - (imric) - (9)
                         Forget usability for a moment. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             EXACT opposite on Mepis - (imric)
                             That is my biggest irritation about Linux distros - (ben_tilly)
                         Spatial == ass, IMO - (admin) - (5)
                             What is "spatial"? - (cwbrenn) - (4)
                                 Spatial: each folder gets its own window - (admin) - (3)
                                     Spring-loaded folders roxxor. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         They're patented by Apple. -NT - (altmann)
                                     That's one of the reasons why I prefer File Commander. - (Another Scott)
                 Nobody's making you use GNOME. - (ubernostrum) - (91)
                     ROFL - I know. - (imric) - (2)
                         You undermine your own argument. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                             More stuff and nonsense. - (imric)
                     Just to let you all know... - (folkert) - (87)
                         Damn, I gotta meet somebody like that... - (inthane-chan)
                         Greg? - (imric) - (85)
                             Really? - (ubernostrum) - (82)
                                 Except that KDE actually works. - (imric) - (81)
                                     Works so well, in fact... - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                         Skip uses Mepis. Mepis isn't dropping KDE. - (Another Scott)
                                         Yeah and did you see the uproar from the users at Novell - (imric) - (2)
                                             s/users/KDE developers/ -NT - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                 According to YOU. - (imric)
                                     Re: Except that KDE actually works. - (ubernostrum) - (75)
                                         Waiting for the ad hominem when you ran out of logic. - (imric) - (74)
                                             And yet you don't seem to have any responses. - (ubernostrum) - (73)
                                                 ROFL. - (imric) - (72)
                                                     Configurability. - (ubernostrum) - (71)
                                                         Re: Configurability. - (admin) - (70)
                                                             Re: Configurability. - (pwhysall)
                                                             Removing options - (ubernostrum) - (68)
                                                                 Simpler to use, keeps use focused, reduces errors - (admin) - (67)
                                                                     Simple/Complex - (altmann) - (2)
                                                                         Re: Simple/Complex - (admin) - (1)
                                                                             hey! thats what I do for a living :-) - (boxley)
                                                                     When's the last time you looked at Nautilus? - (ubernostrum) - (59)
                                                                         And this invalidates my point somehow? - (admin) - (58)
                                                                             So which do you want? - (ubernostrum) - (57)
                                                                                 That isn't his point. - (folkert) - (56)
                                                                                     Re: That isn't his point. - (ubernostrum) - (55)
                                                                                         So have we finally come back to GNOME usability? - (static) - (5)
                                                                                             ObLRPD. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                             You know, it's funny. - (ubernostrum) - (3)
                                                                                                 Re: You know, it's funny. - (altmann) - (1)
                                                                                                     I find it pretty handy. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                 I now see why you've been upsetting people in here. - (static)
                                                                                         Please... - (folkert) - (48)
                                                                                             Please... - (ubernostrum) - (47)
                                                                                                 Try at least reading your own posts - (drewk) - (46)
                                                                                                     That I did. - (ubernostrum) - (45)
                                                                                                         No you're not. You're not wondering at all. - (cwbrenn) - (44)
                                                                                                             Whoa, there, cowboy! - (ubernostrum) - (43)
                                                                                                                 Points you missed. - (folkert) - (42)
                                                                                                                     Re: Points you missed. - (ubernostrum) - (41)
                                                                                                                         Last word I will speak to you. - (imric) - (6)
                                                                                                                             Re: Last word I will speak to you. - (ubernostrum) - (5)
                                                                                                                                 There's this thing called "history". - (admin) - (4)
                                                                                                                                     And we know where calumniation leads. - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                     Ooh, I know this game! - (ubernostrum) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         Since you asked. - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             Let's try it again then. (new thread) - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                         Actually, dung-for-brains, you didn't. (new thread) - (static)
                                                                                                                         I really haven't paid much attention here - (bepatient) - (15)
                                                                                                                             Re: I really haven't paid much attention here - (ubernostrum) - (14)
                                                                                                                                 Hmm - (bepatient) - (13)
                                                                                                                                     A couple things - (ubernostrum) - (12)
                                                                                                                                         Nits - (bepatient) - (11)
                                                                                                                                             I never got it with Warp. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                 It wasn't pretty, granted - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                     And, it could be made quite pretty - (jake123) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                         I thought its font handling was spectacularly awful. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             The early iterations of the TT handling _were_ awful - (jake123)
                                                                                                                                             Re: Nits - (ubernostrum) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 OT: Please don't put things in quotes unless you're quoting - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     When I quote - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                                             He seems to be listening to you. - (static) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 Well. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     Do you blame me for losing my temper? (new thread) - (static)
                                                                                                                         Perhaps I see the problem. - (Another Scott) - (15)
                                                                                                                             It feels like this essay might be appropriate here - (broomberg) - (2)
                                                                                                                                 That's good. +5 Informative. -NT - (static)
                                                                                                                                 Actually. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                             I agree with on this one, - (Moriarty)
                                                                                                                             Actually. - (ubernostrum) - (10)
                                                                                                                                 The parent to this post summarizes the stymie perfectly. - (folkert)
                                                                                                                                 "Enlightenment by choice" - (broomberg) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     The WM is only one aspect of the environment, Barry. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                     To me, it's a simple dichotomy. - (ubernostrum)
                                                                                                                                 WEEEEEE! (Great gallopin' goshes) - (folkert) - (5)
                                                                                                                                     What hardware are you running that on? - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                                                         Re: What hardware are you running that on? - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                                         Very Lean, comparatively - (folkert) - (2)
                                                                                                                                             OT: X's reported memory usage means nowt - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 Yes, I understand that is the case. - (folkert)
                                                                                                                         Points mangled too, though? - (Ashton)
                                                                     And regarding "focus" - (ubernostrum) - (3)
                                                                         Then explain how configurability causes lack of focus. - (admin) - (2)
                                                                             Again. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                                                                 You sure about the JFK bit? I got doubts... -NT - (hnick)
                             Yeah... I know. - (folkert) - (1)
                                 *smile* - (imric)
             Thats why I choose "none of the above" - (bepatient)
         Gnomes are so cute! I love that Travelocity guy! :0) -NT - (imqwerky) - (2)
             IFS -NT - (Silverlock) - (1)
                 And you flushed me for saying Gnomes are cute. :-P -NT - (imqwerky)
         Well, wasn't that fun? - (pwhysall) - (6)
             Go away, this is good clean fun. - (admin) - (5)
                 Mind where you're waving that thing. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                     Well... - (admin) - (3)
                         That wasn't my sister... - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             I wouldn't have made that mistake - (admin) - (1)
                                 With *your* eyes? Puleeze. -NT - (pwhysall)

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