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New Solaris 10 x86 vendor support
I may as well post this here too for discussion.

The situation as I've discovered it so far is pretty much what I've already posted.

Oracle 10g is the only version available for Solaris 10 x86
No PVCS
No MQ Series.

However, this is all I've looked at so far.

My expectation is that vendor support in general is pretty abyssmal. For this platform, Sun seems to be betting on 1) Oracle 10g, 2) internal application development, 3) open source (Apache, etc.), and 4) the Linux Application Environment, which won't be available until 2006. I think the last is what they're really counting on.

While the OS truly is Solaris, it's a different instruction set *and* a different endian. The latter issue is of concern to vendors with C-code to port, and it's something I'll be dealing with over the next few weeks.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Expand Edited by admin Oct. 11, 2005, 07:21:00 PM EDT
New Don't expect it to get any better
Vendors see the holy grail in Linux and Open Source, as long as it does not conflict with their particular product. The less you spend on other pieces of the system, the more you have for them.

So they are reluctant to support something like Solaris x86 (miniscule market presence, same effort of development and support as Linux).

You would need a MAJOR $$ client to push for something like that.
New It's not the same effort.
As long as you don't have to worry about endian stuff, the code is exactly the same for Solaris x86 as for Sparc.

Going between Solaris and Linux is a much larger effort (I've done this before).

The key with Solaris x86 is that there are some Solaris admins out there who realize that Sparc hardware is slower for a lot of things, but they don't want to deal with Linux to get the speed gains. Things like commodity web servers, etc., are great targets for Solaris x86 in an all-Solaris shop. Keep the database on the big many-CPU iron, and put the load balanced smaller stuff on cheap fast machines.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New thanx
I have been told the linux application environment is available now.
Certain open source programs I am interested in are supported by Sun directly and would be covered under our current contract.
Different Instruction set and endian is important for porting but not important to me as I will be using open source x86 products almost entirely.
The speed advantage with the Solaris UFS Vs other x86 file systems is important.
There is a belief that Sun is betting the farm on Solarix x86 and will continue to do so. I have seen that quote before.
thanx
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Who told you?
I'd love to get my hands on LAE now. It would solve at least one of my big headaches with Solaris x86.

Anything you can compile is likely to be just fine.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New let me sniff around tomorrow
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Thanks.
Finding anything about it online is so far defeating my Google-fu. I've only been able to find press releases and statements that it is delayed.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New we have sun paid evangelists onsite :-)
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Sun may be betting the farm on it...
But if so, then I'm betting that they'll get buried in that farm.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Agreed
Given their installed based, they will be around for a long time.
But they will fall, just like the rest of the big Unix vendors.

Given the choice between being locked in to a single vendor,
and the illusion of multiple Linux vendors, it is a no brainer
for a CTO to choose Linux on x86 over Solaris on x86.

The Sun techs might be unhappy, but imagine if they are
give the choice: Linux or Windows?

They will fully support the Linux in that scenario.

Well, maybe not fully, maybe there will be problems, but
they will play the hero and save the day, if they have a
possible windows migration hanging over their heads.

If they are already a Sun shop, I'll bet they still dabble
in Linux for education and edge / compute / samba boxes.

Which gives them choices in the future. Single vendor
lockin is the ultimate sin for a CTO.
New sure but if solaris is opensource?
and you have the large installed base of solaris knowledgable programmers that can now get all the dev tools free? with a rock solid hardware support base, it may be tuck and go but better than betting on sparc.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Won't matter
Groundswell is Linux.
Paid programmers who contribute do Linux.
All the other vendors (HP, IBM, etc) will contribute to Linux, not Solaris.
New Can someone give the abridged description of "endian"? (new thread)
Created as new thread #229208 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=229208|Can someone give the abridged description of "endian"?]
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Linux Application Environment
look for a script called lxrun,
what they have done is place all the linux libraries in a separate area, lxrun sets up your environment to run from the linux libs instead of your solaris ones. This allows a linux program to run as designed in the Solaris space. HTH but probably not what you were looking for.
thanx,
Bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Thanks.
Looks like I need an install CD for RH 7.3.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New lxrun != LAE
lxrun is an open source thinger first created by SCO. More details [link|http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~steven/lxrun/|here].
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New yes it is :-(
its how its currently done now, the next release will simply polish and make the thing more transparent.
on a linux with a recent build do file /bin/ls, do the same on a solaris x86 ver 10, they are identical but id you do an ldd on both they are looking for different libraries. lxrun then LAE simply does the library management so that any binary will find the needed libraries to run.

LAE is more a toy since you can grab any source, do a configure, make, make install natively in Solaris or in linux if you use the zone concept and put a native linux os under the solaris install. If you dont have the source and the binary is a must have program, the LAE will supply the needed libraries to keep on trucking.

I am just parroting info here so YMMV
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Not according to Sun
lxrun is the original script... LAE is supposed to be kernel-level support, not a script. IE, you won't have to do "lxrun /some/linux/program", you can just run it directly.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New " LAE is supposed to be kernel-level support"
That support is already there, the binaries are identical, just that the libraries have different names. If you have a program with statically linked libs it runs fine. When you have dynamic shared libs specified it needs to find the correctly named one.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Re: " LAE is supposed to be kernel-level support"
[link|http://www.processor.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/P2711/39p11/39p11.asp&guid=|http://www.processor...1/39p11.asp&guid=]
Solaris 10 includes LXRun, which lets Linux users run Linux binaries. Also, says Ratcliffe, "We are working on a Linux application environment, scheduled for later this year, that will let Solaris 10 users run Linux apps natively, side-by-side with Solaris applications. For Windows users, we're including a WINE emulator."


Sounds like two different things to me. lxrun already does dynamic linking.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New just repeating what the insider is telling me
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Moot point until they release LAE anyways.
I'm not having a lot of luck with lxrun. Lots of stuff like "UNIMPLEMENTED syscall 252" and unable to find .a libraries. I did manage to run uname and ls out of my linux distro, for all the good that does me. :-)
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
     Solaris 10 x86 vendor support - (admin) - (21)
         Don't expect it to get any better - (broomberg) - (1)
             It's not the same effort. - (admin)
         thanx - (boxley) - (8)
             Who told you? - (admin) - (3)
                 let me sniff around tomorrow -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                     Thanks. - (admin) - (1)
                         we have sun paid evangelists onsite :-) -NT - (boxley)
             Sun may be betting the farm on it... - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                 Agreed - (broomberg) - (2)
                     sure but if solaris is opensource? - (boxley) - (1)
                         Won't matter - (broomberg)
         Can someone give the abridged description of "endian"? (new thread) - (drewk)
         Linux Application Environment - (boxley) - (8)
             Thanks. - (admin)
             lxrun != LAE - (admin) - (6)
                 yes it is :-( - (boxley) - (5)
                     Not according to Sun - (admin) - (4)
                         " LAE is supposed to be kernel-level support" - (boxley) - (3)
                             Re: " LAE is supposed to be kernel-level support" - (admin) - (2)
                                 just repeating what the insider is telling me -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Moot point until they release LAE anyways. - (admin)

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