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New ya dont know too many mystics do ya
I wasnt there either to here what was said but as a son of G_d I could sit at his right hand. That is where we come from and where we "hope" to return. But to be a messiah a couple of things need to happen, a few things in Jesus's case is missing. If he was the messiah how did the temple come to be destroyed? nonsense if he was the messiah he would be sitting there still in the temple opened for business. You are waiting for the mesiah to return I am waiting for the first appearance and it might even be the same entity but Jesus cannot be the son of G_d and G_d at the same time. There is only one G_d. On the cross he was adressing him as father, was he talking to himself? No he was clearly a separate entity. He also said he would not change the law until the end of time. He did not say I will not change the Law until my servant Paul gets here to straighten you out. That is why I beleive Jesus was/is a Jew and Paul wanted to hijack a religion.
Please I enjoy talking about this but I do respect your beliefs and commend you for it.
thanx,
bill
can I have my ones and zeros back?
New Back on track?
If he was the messiah ...

Please keep in mind that I am not claiming Jesus is the Messiah in this discussion. (I think he is, you think he's not)

My singular point in this discussion is that Jesus claimed to be God and it was for that that he was executed; and not only that but that based on what he said, if he wasn't the Messiah, then his execution was justified.

No for some other points

On the cross he was adressing him as father, was he talking to himself?

You ever talk to your self in time of crisis :)

He also said he would not change the law until the end of time.

Actually, he just said "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."[1] He also "I have come not to abolish the law but to fulfill it"[2] and then on the cross he said "it is finished"[3] See the connection. Like a contract that is in force until it's terms are complete. Jesus came not to terminate the contract prematurely but to fulfill it's terms.

He did not say I will not change the Law until my servant Paul gets here to straighten you out.

Interestingly, Peter was the first to break the Law.

He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. - Acts10:11-16

This was after Paul's conversion but before he had met Peter, or even started preaching

Paul wanted to hijack a religion.

As far as Paul and the Law, Paul goes on at length in "Romans" explaining that the Law is still in effect for those who have not accepted Jesus as Messiah

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous."

Here (Romans in general) and in other places (Galatians 3:25 is a good one) Paul presents a duality. You are either under Christ or under the Law. If you are under Christ, he Law no longer applies. If you are not under Christ, you are still subject, and will be judged by, the Law

To clarify: I'm not saying Paul was right, I'm meerly saying that Paul's teaching on the law was more complex than to merely reject it. He actually argued for it under certain circumstances


Please I enjoy talking about this but I do respect your beliefs and commend you for it.

Hey, it keeps me on my toes...and is sorta fun as long as the conversation is kept polite


[1]Matthew 5:18
[2]Matthew 5:17
[3]John 19:30
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
     Jefferson Bible [Fixed] - (JayMehaffey) - (95)
         Please edit link - it's not working. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
         The NT according to Ox - (boxley) - (91)
             At last - a useable translation! - (Ashton) - (90)
                 that part was always hard to figure - (boxley) - (89)
                     Query. - (static) - (87)
                         Long thread on slezyboard - (boxley) - (86)
                             Ah. Thanks. -NT - (static) - (85)
                                 heres the part Paul was not born a Jew - (boxley) - (84)
                                     Don't take it completely out of isolation. - (static) - (8)
                                         not to steal Nicks arg but - (boxley) - (4)
                                             Clearly you do not accept Paul's authority. - (static) - (3)
                                                 I dont - (boxley) - (2)
                                                     But you didn't answer my question. - (static) - (1)
                                                         sorry missed the question - (boxley)
                                         More info for you on Paul - (orion) - (2)
                                             Interesting excerpts. Thanks. -NT - (static) - (1)
                                                 You are most welcome - (orion)
                                     Bad example - (Fearless Freep) - (74)
                                         Spiritiual Jews? - (orion) - (73)
                                             Just multiply 'your take' by the total number - (Ashton)
                                             Doesn't to me - (Fearless Freep) - (71)
                                                 Part of the reason is that we have been - (boxley) - (70)
                                                     I agree somewhat - (orion) - (61)
                                                         Practically speaking - (Fearless Freep)
                                                         Misread - (Fearless Freep) - (9)
                                                             slight disagreement - (boxley) - (8)
                                                                 Don't agree - (Fearless Freep) - (7)
                                                                     he claimed he was G_d? - (boxley) - (6)
                                                                         Sure - (Fearless Freep) - (4)
                                                                             that was chuck's favorite phrase too. - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                 Pretty far fetched - (Fearless Freep) - (2)
                                                                                     ya dont know too many mystics do ya - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                         Back on track? - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                         Re: he claimed he was G_d? - (Fearless Freep)
                                                         this might clear up a few misconceptions - (boxley) - (49)
                                                             Huh? - (Fearless Freep) - (48)
                                                                 sorry I was to terse in prior post - (boxley) - (47)
                                                                     How will you know a true messiah? - (orion) - (1)
                                                                         Re: How will you know a true messiah? - (bluke)
                                                                     Re: sorry I was to terse in prior post - (Fearless Freep) - (44)
                                                                         When you are skeptical of anyone - (orion) - (16)
                                                                             "The Dwarves are for the Dwarves" - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                             easy stuff - (boxley) - (14)
                                                                                 So um.... :) - (Fearless Freep) - (13)
                                                                                     need all of them and be decended from David - (boxley) - (11)
                                                                                         Re: need all of them and be decended from David - (Fearless Freep) - (10)
                                                                                             no problemo - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                                                 Jesus is supposed to come back - (orion) - (4)
                                                                                                     If you look at every religion - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                                         Sorry but... - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                             Everyone is entitled to their own opinions - (orion)
                                                                                                         This is the way it is in the world - (orion)
                                                                                             Re: need all of them and be decended from David - (bluke) - (3)
                                                                                                 Re: need all of them and be decended from David - (Fearless Freep) - (2)
                                                                                                     With all due respect... - (bluke) - (1)
                                                                                                         Nonsense. - (addison)
                                                                                     What is the basis for the Second Coming? - (bluke)
                                                                         thats not the problem - (boxley) - (26)
                                                                             Ah. - (static) - (25)
                                                                                 No I believe he rose from the dead - (boxley) - (24)
                                                                                     At least you believe that - (orion) - (1)
                                                                                         like elijah and moses - (boxley)
                                                                                     Huh? - (Fearless Freep) - (4)
                                                                                         my bad I was thinking of Elijah and assumed moses - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                             In the NT, Jesus spoke with both of them - (orion) - (2)
                                                                                                 Re: In the NT, Jesus spoke with both of them - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                     Conference call with Moses and Elijah - (orion)
                                                                                     Uh. Right. - (static) - (16)
                                                                                         The Brothers Karamazov covers aspects of this too... :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                         question - (boxley) - (14)
                                                                                             Re: question - (Fearless Freep) - (12)
                                                                                                 the law that G_d handed down - (boxley) - (11)
                                                                                                     Also don't forget - (orion) - (2)
                                                                                                         not new but went back home -m -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                             Went back home - (orion)
                                                                                                     Sorry - (Fearless Freep) - (7)
                                                                                                         Amen to that! :) -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                                                                                         kinda sorta this is what I was looking for - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                                                             Good advice for anyone IMO - (Steve Lowe)
                                                                                                             That's the problem - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                 must have missed something - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                                     Some links. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                         I see he was foretelling his resurection - (boxley)
                                                                                             Answer. - (static)
                                                     Nope - (Fearless Freep) - (7)
                                                         Well, that's the general human condition - (mhuber) - (6)
                                                             Trivial - (Fearless Freep) - (5)
                                                                 hey Im a miracle! -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                     So am I then. - (orion) - (2)
                                                                         Then in truth - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                             I get what life and G_d gives me - (orion)
                                                                 Heh.. nicely put :-\ufffd -NT - (Ashton)
                     Re: that part was always hard to figure - (Fearless Freep)
         Curious and yet familiar, all the same. - (static) - (1)
             "Either God or a Bad Man" ... - (Fearless Freep)

Why, that looks so dangerous - I'm sure I'll learn something wonderful!
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