IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Inquiring of the Grammar Gods here
SIL strikes again.

This time she announced that a line in a letter to the family was "redundant."
I'm not certain that she's correct, I think it's possible it works either way. At any rate, here is the paragraph for your perusal and her comments. I would appreciate knowing if it is redundant or not. MS grammar check showed no problems.

Paragraph in question:
**We would like to have this information (photos, stories) sent to either Brenda or Katie by the 1st of March, 2006 so that we will have time to combine it all together in a booklet. Thanks in advance for your participation in this fun, which contributes to family togetherness.**

SIL'S COMMENTS:
***Did you know that "combine it all together" is redundant? If it's not too late & if you wanted to avoid redundancy you could "put it together" or "combine it"***

(Mind you, she posted this AFTER I had posted that I had printed out 80 letters... not sure if she missed that fact or plain didn't care.)

Well Grammar Gods, what's the verdict, is it redundant?

Thanks in advance,

Brenda



"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"
New Tell SIL to sit on a stick and spin.
"combine it all together has better flow than her "correct" wording, which would be far more important to a creative writer than "redundancy".
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Expand Edited by Andrew Grygus Sept. 22, 2005, 10:57:12 PM EDT
New "sit and spin" is the only completely corrtect answer.
A less correct answer would be "bite me".
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.

--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
New Seconded
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Thirded.
English has, as do most natural languages, a comparatively high level of redundant information in its structure. SIL has just so happened to have noticed a more obvious instance.

Wade.
d-_-b
New Fourthed?!?
I like the phrase, "Blow me very much!"
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Your writing is fine.
I don't know enough about her to know whether she's genuinely trying to help or whether she enjoys "correcting" others. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Shrug it off and move on. Your writing is fine.

Life's too short to be worried by such criticism. ;-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Positive Update :)
I listened to all of you, and when I wrote SIL my e-mail on Thursday night, I incorporated some of the things you all suggested (such as letting her know I didn't know her real intent from all this, for example).

I still wrote in a negotiating, open-minded mode directed at understanding the problem and giving it the best tone as possible, though, I didn't attack or blame her, I just told her how I felt.

She wrote back yesterday, and I learned the following things:

She didn't mean to hurt me with her comments, and is sorry I got hurt. She seemed genuinely interested in my answers, and hopefully in working the situation out, and she also asked for my source regarding the "try and" issue that was discussed in here awhile back, so I gave her Ben's website.

Edit: She lamented a little bit about the deterioration of the English language in recent years, and actually reminded me about some of the things Ashton has said on here, among others. So it doesn't seem to be a personal thing. However, I explained that my writing and any choices about it would be the one thing I would defend most, as it was the most important thing to me to protect in this messed up situation with the Reunion committee.

I don't know if things will straighten out completely, but we have opened a calm, reasonable dialogue for the first time since July 17th this year's incident, and honestly, I think that's major progress.

Thank you sincerely, for all of your help.

Brenda



"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
Expand Edited by Nightowl Sept. 24, 2005, 09:34:58 AM EDT
New Like yer .sig!
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Thanks, me too!
That's essentially what I finally told my mom about letting me speak freely to SIL after years of hearing "PLEASE don't rock the boat!"

I like it a lot, it's almost liberating. :)

Brenda



"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
New What,there's a difference?You can't enjoy trying to help?:-)
New Suggested riposte, if you want this to Cease (?)
Something like - -

Sorry, I just have too much to do; have no time for Pecksniffery.

(Let Her look it up, or just Guess or __ whatever.)

New That's the hardest part, Ashton
She is on the reunion committee, thus she is allowed some input... which I tried to grant her the first three times she made suggestions, and we actually compromised.

However, the last comment was posted directly to me, and AFTER I had printed out all 80 letters.... redoing it was out of the question.

But I'll keep your comment in mind.

Thanks for the input, you and everyone else. I don't understand why and how the things she says can make me feel so stupid... wish I could stop that from happening... but I'm not sure how, somehow I gave her some power awhile back and now I have to find a way to take it back, I guess... because my self-esteem is suffering due to it.

I truly appreciate the replies and support here, I do take some pride in my ability to write for the most part, anyway, and I guess I just feel like it and me are under some sort of attack by her, even if it's only in my head. (Which is the real problem, I have no clue whether she means well or doesn't, she won't communicate about it to me, only other committee members).

Brenda



"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"
New Not so hard -
You are (I infer) doing 'valuable' work for this group. A PhD in linguistics is irrelevant; your prose is understandable - this is about Style, ego and a propensity to meddle (for whatever internal reasons - you don't Need to know or even to care about.)

Tell her to back off - or
(I still like the Pecksniff ploy; it's a decent non-racy variant of Nobody fucks with Paul Lazzaro! - if you happened to read/see Slaughterhouse Five.)

or- "this is my Two Weeks notice - I'm retiring from the job."

As my Mater used to say, "you can be as easy as an old shoe and worth as little."
(And any 'suffering' over this twit's stupid chatter: is, remember: self-inflicted ie Intentional Suffering. That's also a popular pastime. But ____.)

New Re: Not so hard -
As my Mater used to say, "you can be as easy as an old shoe and worth as little."


(And any 'suffering' over this twit's stupid chatter: is, remember: self-inflicted ie Intentional Suffering. That's also a popular pastime. But ____.)


Yeah, I get that at least. I know I only started hurting about it when I started to let myself truly care about her opinion earlier this year... she's been married to my brother for years and I never cared a whit about her opinion, nor her about mine, and it was fine then.... problem is, we are trying to forge a working relationship now, and silly me, I thought we were succeeding.. not sure now, really I'm not. I just wish I knew how to turn off the "care" switch, it takes a lot for someone to push me till I don't, and she has quite a way to go. Although she is beginning to remind me of that other person whom-used-to-be-on-here-and-is-gone now... who made me crazy for years.

Thanks Ashton, I'm truly trying to get a grasp on this situation, because I don't need all the physical symptoms this mess is causing me lately. But addressing it with her head on from now on, seems like a good way to start. :)

Brenda



"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"
New Dupe: ignore, ISP hiccupped during send mode



"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"
Expand Edited by Nightowl Sept. 23, 2005, 02:23:36 AM EDT
New She's an ass****e
What does she do for a living?
How are her relationships with others?
What is she trying to hide?

Find out.

Then make her aware ofthe remote possibility that her time spent torturing you is at an end.

When she replies she is not torturing you, say:

OH! OK, my mistake. If you are too stupid to figure out what you say concerning me is torture, then I suggest you never say anything to me or about me again, including anything I do or say.

Yeah, I know, in your dreams. Or at least mine.

But take a goddamn stand.
New Re: She's an ass****e
What does she do for a living?


Currently, she's unemployed. She used to pick on me for not being employed, but that one at least has sort of stopped since she is now not working.

How are her relationships with others?


She apparently treats everyone like this. Most take it, most don't care, but it's different when you are trying to all work together and someone is acting this...hurtful, I guess is the word.

What is she trying to hide?


Find out.


I honestly think she has very poor self-esteem so she beats up on other people verbally to push hers up and theirs down. My opinion, only.

Then make her aware ofthe remote possibility that her time spent torturing you is at an end.


When she replies she is not torturing you, say:


OH! OK, my mistake. If you are too stupid to figure out what you say concerning me is torture, then I suggest you never say anything to me or about me again, including anything I do or say.


Yeah, I know, in your dreams. Or at least mine.


Not really, I would actually consider saying something very close to that. Thanks for the suggestion.

But take a goddamn stand.


I plan to, I promise. When my heart races for 10 hours just because she does something that upsets me or hurts me, it's time to take SOME action to stop it.

Thanks for the input

Brenda




"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
New A suggestion
If Ashton is willing....

Send next letter to Ashton, who does have a way with words. Let him put it into Ashtonesse. Send it ONLY to her for approval. Send out normal letter to everyone else.


She is just trying to "one-up" you by being grammatically superior. Read her suggestions and if it feels right to you, then change it. Otherwise ignore it.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
New :-)
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
New Hahahah!
That is soooo priceless!

I'd love to see her deal with Ashtonese.... I could never do it with the reunion letters, but maybe a personal one to her would be a good idea... I'll keep it in mind.

I can see it now, "Dear SIL, I have decided that since it's obvious we can't seem to communicate very well, to hire someone who can communicate much better, and send it to you in his words."

Ashton... what's your going rate for translating? Hehehe!

Brenda



"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
New Price List:
Depends upon the goal desired:

1) Reduce to quivering mass of blubbering Jello.

2) Do 1) adding: attack Kidneys, via immune system response.
2a) Just make them want to urinate. A Lot.
2b) Commence shut-down of, 2b-1) One? or, 2b-2) Both?

3) The resonant frequency of the anal sphincter is ~ 54 Hz
(This method requires a little equipment, along with The Message)

There are Individual Rates and Group Buy
(as say, the Knitting Ladies, in Python sketches.)

For quotations:
Send psychiatric report and your naked color photo to -


Serendipitous Sanctimony Remedies LLC
Div. of Up Yours! Proctologists Ltd.

New :-)
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Peter's Rewrite, FWIW:
"Send your photos and any other info to Brenda or Katie by 1st March 2006; we'll collate it into a booklet. Thanks for helping to coagulate* the family."

Mind you, I'd be inclined to advise SIL to fornicate elsewhere.

*You might want to change "coagulate", though.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Expand Edited by pwhysall Sept. 23, 2005, 08:51:46 AM EDT
New s/coagulate/rigor-mortisize/ :-)
New You're fine, but giving her too much time
If you don't have to scrape her off your shoe, ignore her.
Your writing is fine. You know the rules, and are allowed to break them to make your script read the way you want it to sound.
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, become editors... ;)
New Agreed
I've been spending way too much time trying to negotiate carefully with her and protect the reunion comittee. It's time I started giving her less power over me, and somehow I intend to find a way.

If you don't have to scrape her off your shoe, ignore her.


Your writing is fine. You know the rules, and are allowed to break them to make your script read the way you want it to sound.


Can I quote you to her with that sometime? I like that.... hmmmm it might make a great sig, also.... with a few words changed....

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, become editors... ;)


Yep. And there always seem to be too darn many of em!

Brenda



"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
New Hmmm...I always thought: "those that can't teach, teach gym"
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Well, yeah... but we were talking about writing...
and I suspect that a lot of the writing critics out there got to their exalted position after reading a matchbook "You too can be an editor! Find the unpicked nit..."
New Nope, My sister the middle school teacher's coffee cup says
"Those that can't teach go into some other, less significant line of work."
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.

--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
New I was just being a smartass.
I have the greatest respect for good teachers. It was supposed to be a funny.
New Those that can't teach gym
become politicians.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 


New Explains Der Karl nicely! Thanx-
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Being a smartass? On this board? No. Say it isn't so.
Ditto
-----------------------------------------
George W. Bush and his PNAC handlers sent the US into Iraq with lies. I find myself rethinking my opposition to the death penalty.

--Donald Dean Richards Jr.
New Twain quote
I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.
-- [link|http://www.google.com/search?q=%22I+didn%27t+have+time+to+write+a+short+letter%2C+so+I+wrote+a+long+one+instead.%22|Mark Twain]
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Voltaire(?) quote
(Probably apocryphal) Sir: I am seated in the smallest room of the house. I have your letter before me. Soon it will be behind me.

Tell SIL to put a creosote-soaked sock in it.

cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New "I am retuning this paper. Someone wrote on it." no origin
New Late than never I suppose
SIL has an ants to instruct others in a non timely matter to increase her self esteem. Thank her for all suggestions and ignore anything she tells/writes you unless it is an egregious fault on your behalf. Dont know if you recall the "ginger" dog cartoon, if you do, thats SIL
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Never heard of it
Can you elaborate?

I like your suggestions though, and will definitely consider them.

Thanks.

Brenda



"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
New google foo is weak, however
one cartoon panel has a dog owner berating his dog, ginger! bad dog! you shouldnt do that. Ginger! bad dog! in the second panel its from the dog's point of view, all it hears is Ginger! bla bla bla Ginger! bla bla bla.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Here ya go. 13 kB img.
[image|http://www.bakbone.com/newsletter/images/ginger_large.gif|0|What they hear...|356|269]

I found it doing a search on "the far side ginger". The first link was [link|http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=416754|this], which had a link to the image.

That wasn't my first attempt though... :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Ain't it da Truff...
1-Way conversation last night with my part-time cat, Sierra ... angling for some more salmon skin (her fav; she be my most efficient recycler of otherwise homo-sap unpalatable pieces of goodies).


moi:
Sierra.. no more for now. With two feeding you, you are getting Fat.
And I want to see you stick around this illusion for awhile.. Y'Hear, Sierra !?


Sierra hears:
Sierra..Garble blabble rhubarb gabble fabble deebee doo ...
Sierra !?



..but - something Does get through the worm hole, orthogonally
(that word's almost as much fun as cellar door)

When I'm obviously speaking to her -
(like the guy on the PBS series imagineering an explanation of the current Rev. Duh.0.66 of the Super-Stringy-ID-Theory of Everything -- to his dog)

- she makes periodic one-cat-syllable mews -- and I notice that, focussing on just her mouth: it is most hilariously remindful of many animated cartoons with the mouth running a [!=.jpg - that earlier TLA] script! It is an actual emotional expression in catese, indubitably.





I will next try some Sanskrit words on her..
I see a breakthrough dwarfing that with Koko....
New Re: Is it redundant?
No, no, no! A thousand times no! :)

If it doesn't confuse, it's OK by me.
Alex

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
New If I've told you once -
I've told you a thousand times - Don't Exaggerate!

New Owl Vs SIL Round 1, Owl.
You always seem to make me feel better, Ashton. ;)

SIL and I are still communicating, but she has deteriorated into "Stubborn Child mode" and that was her own words, Hahah! She is back to the judging, critical commenting about me, and etc. but the major difference this time is that now I have control back.

Why is that, you say? Well, because before I was working from nothing. I had no clue where she was headed or what she thought or why. Now even when she is being unreasonable, Example:, "I absolutely refuse to consciously agree to disagree because it implies I will be happy with your opinion.", I'm handling it fine.

WTF???? Who ever said that? I've never heard that described like that before. It's more like, "I accept that you have your opinion, and you accept that I have mine." It doesn't have a darn thing to do with being happy about anything!

This of course puts me in the better place now. Because I can simply say back to her, "You can choose to believe it means that, and I choose to believe that it means we are each entitled to our own opinion, and that is ok."

Watch out, SIL... I'm ARMED now... I have the knowledge and words to protect me all figured out, and I will not put up with anything more. And the best part is that I'm stopping a pattern (for years) of justifying things to her. I don't have to justify a D**m thing to her or anyone else except maybe my husband. So she's in for a HUGE surprise when she bitches and says something like, "You're too difficult to deal with." (one of her favorite lines), and I said, "Fine, don't deal with me. ;) "

Yes folks.... the show is on, and I'm the Maitre D.

BTW, Can someone easily tell me what the difference between an epithet and an epistle is? Is it just that the first is shorter? Because both are described as written accounts of something (as a vague description). What makes them different?

Thanks.

Brenda



"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
Expand Edited by Nightowl Sept. 25, 2005, 02:16:21 AM EDT
Expand Edited by Nightowl Sept. 25, 2005, 02:19:59 AM EDT
New Worse than Ashtonese or Boxlish?
I have read this paragraph six times and I still have no concept of what it means. Can anyone interpret SILatin?

(Regarding separating my family report from my letter):

"If it was separated for all, it would allow \ufffdThe Turnbow News\ufffd to be subject to the concerns of other Turnbows about accuracy. They might also like to reduce any editorial aspects of its presentation.<<

Huh? Subject to the concerns???? Reduce what??? Editorial aspects of it's presentation? I'm lost here.

And can anyone tell me what she's trying to say below?

"I would think it would be to your advantage to NOT send the letter to those whom you believe wanted to tell you what to write. Then they won\ufffdt know what you\ufffdre saying that would have bothered them. Most people don\ufffdt like for anyone to speak for them."

Man... this is worse than Ashtonese, because even a DICTIONARY isn't helping.

Sheesh... (pondering sending her the next letter in Ashtonese all over again).

Brenda



"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
Expand Edited by Nightowl Sept. 25, 2005, 02:29:52 AM EDT
New what part of "oh fine you write the dam thing"
does your SIL not understand? /me would be washing my hands of the whole shiteree about now and watch sports on TV instead.

Epithet "Fuck you"
Epistle, Epiphany "I have recieved the insight from my higher power to say "Fuck you, thank you very much""
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Explanation
She is saying that "The Turnbow News" is inaccurate and poorly written. She'd like to have more influence over it. Lacking context, I can't tell whether she's offering to write it, or offering to give you lots of criticism on it. Probably she's planning to offer criticism.

In the second passage she's telling you not to send the letter to those who might want to tell you what to write. Then they won't have anything to be upset at.

Incidentally the trick that she's using to confuse you is simple. She is turning every sentence around to say it in a convoluted way. The technical description is "using the passive voice". Basically there are two ways to say something, directly, or indirectly. Saying it directly is called the active voice because there are usually a lot of things acting on other things. Saying it indirectly is called the passive voice because nouns have things done do them.

Simple example. The cat climbed the tree. (Active) The tree was climbed by the cat. (Passive)

Here is the amusing bit. Modern style guides almost always recommend the active voice over the passive. This has been the case for over 40 years. Unless they changed in a recent version, Microsoft Word will analyze your writing for signs of the passive voice and suggest that they be corrected. Why? As [link|http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_actpass.html|this guide from Purdue] points out, Sentences in active voice are generally--though not always-- clearer and more direct than those in passive voice.

Your SIL's writing is an excellent (bad) example.

If I was in your position I'd reply, I won't take your suggestions because I believe that your writing is harder to understand than mine. For instance, contrary to the recommendation of all major style guides, you overuse the passive voice. You'll be more readily understood if you fix this. For further suggestions, I recommend that you read the guide to Plain English at [link|http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/plainenglishguide.html|http://www.plainengl...englishguide.html] and follow its suggestions.

Cheers,
Ben

PS This woman sounds like a real piece of work.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Expand Edited by ben_tilly Sept. 25, 2005, 07:36:10 PM EDT
New {Guffaw!} Award: 1\ufffd Emmys + an Edgar for aptly-hidden Snide!

New SILatin
She is saying that "The Turnbow News" is inaccurate and poorly written. She'd like to have more influence over it. Lacking context, I can't tell whether she's offering to write it, or offering to give you lots of criticism on it. Probably she's planning to offer criticism.


In the second passage she's telling you not to send the letter to those who might want to tell you what to write. Then they won't have anything to be upset at.


Thanks, I was really not grasping all that.

Incidentally the trick that she's using to confuse you is simple. She is turning every sentence around to say it in a convoluted way. The technical description is "using the passive voice". Basically there are two ways to say something, directly, or indirectly. Saying it directly is called the active voice because there are usually a lot of things acting on other things. Saying it indirectly is called the passive voice because nouns have things done do them.


Simple example. The cat climbed the tree. (Active) The tree was climbed by the cat. (Passive)


Here is the amusing bit. Modern style guides almost always recommend the active voice over the passive. This has been the case for over 40 years. Unless they changed in a recent version, Microsoft Word will analyze your writing for signs of the passive voice and suggest that they be corrected. Why? As [link|http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_actpass.html|this guide from Purdue] points out, Sentences in active voice are generally--though not always-- clearer and more direct than those in passive voice.


Your SIL's writing is an excellent (bad) example.


If I was in your position I'd reply, I won't take your suggestions because I believe that your writing is harder to understand than mine. For instance, contrary to the recommendation of all major style guides, you overuse the passive voice. You'll be more readily understood if you fix this. For further suggestions, I recommend that you read the guide to Plain English at [link|http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/plainenglishguide.html|http://www.plainengl...englishguide.html] and follow its suggestions.


I love it! I'll keep it in mind, for the next response! Thanks Ben, you have been very helpful!

Brenda





"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
New Combining all your advice, Thanks!
Light dawns...SIL is behaving like a female Orion! And that is a known factor that I have *much* experience in handling!

BEN:
PS This woman sounds like a real piece of work.


She is, Ben, the things that she says to and about people and in front of other people are just shocking at times. But now that I know what I'm dealing with, I think I have a way to shut this down to a small trickle.

I can't ever handle her like Orion, all though I wish, hehehe, because completely cutting her out of my life isn't an option if I want to maintain any family unity. But she has clearly stated now that she isn't interested in "fixing" the relationship, so now I know exactly what to do.

Another Scott:
I don't know enough about her to know whether she's genuinely trying to help or whether she enjoys "correcting" others. Either way, it doesn't really matter. Shrug it off and move on. Your writing is fine.Life's too short to be worried by such criticism. ;-)


Okay, well now we KNOW. She says she enjoys helping, but she also corrects everyone. Not only that, but her most recent letter makes it clear that she still won't allow me to have my own opinion. Ex, a quote from her letter: "On another point: I don\ufffdt feel the need to \ufffdconsciously [agree] to disagree\ufffd. It implies that I will be happy with your opinion. And that is not necessarily the case."

I looked it up, my brother married her in 1990. Do you realize that I've been putting up with this woman's antics for 15 years, without ever feeling free to tell her what I think, how I feel, and to stay out of my business? This was because mom would beg me not to, not to rock the boat, not to cause problems. Well I've been UNLEASHED! I can say what I want where I want and how I want to SIL, and that is now the plan. And that feels healthy, unlike the rest.

And that doesn't mean I'm going to fight with her, nor does it mean I'm going to have a long drawn out battle, either. What it means is she is now in the category of Orion, and will be treated as such:

Example: She tried to comment about the reasonable accomodations I expect from in a work place (per my disability), and then went on to state I was unhirable.

My reply was simple: "My ability to work or not and the accomodations thereof regarding being employed, (not regarding anything else), is not for you to be involved in and I will not discuss it further."

I've been on IWT a long time now. I've learned ways to "shut down an argument: without casting bait to continue it. I've learned ways from you all to stop a fight and not necessarily lose, and I've learned how to take steps to counter someone who is constantly on my back about something.

I intend to take all this newly found knowledge and sic it on SIL.. and she won't know what hit her. After 15 years of giving in, cowtowing to her, and being badgered over the head till she wins, she's about to meet the REAL Owl.

And I promise, this won't be at the expense of my health or anything else. I am no longer really upset, if that explains anything. Instead I finally feel in control of my emotions where she is concerned, and simply don't give a damn anymore about trying to please her or bending over backwards for her. No more, I'm DONE.

So after I get to say all the things I've wanted to say to her for years, (which shouldn't take too long, because she's had many repeat behaviors), Then I can shut her down to the level of a less close family member, someone I have to deal with on a family basis, and hopefully a working relationship that functions only for the Reunion Committee.

Box:
what part of "oh fine you write the dam thing"does your SIL not understand? /me would be washing my hands of the whole shiteree about now and watch sports on TV instead.Epistle, Epiphany "I have recieved the insight from my higher power to say "Fuck you, thank you very much""


Actually Box, that was such a good idea, that I talked to Katie about it, and she is willing to take the Family Report part off my hands. That leaves me with just my monthly letter, which was never created for the family, and is mine and mine alone. So hopefully very soon, they can be writing it themselves, and I will only be writing the main letters for the Reunion, of which there are only three a year.

I won't tell her to Fuck off, at least probably not, but I'm working on good phrases that say the same thing without the cussing. Sentences that shut her down... example she wrote: "...you are so difficult to deal with!

My reply? "Don't deal with me then!"

And regarding the sports, this mess has already caused me to miss hearing two Penguin Pre-Season Games, and miss seeing MOST of my Steeler Game on Network TV yesterday.... so By God, it SHALL BE STOPPED.

Hnick:
You're fine, but giving her too much time. If you don't have to scrape her off your shoe, ignore her.


Completely agree, the four of us in the committee have been dealing with this ever since july 17th. My mom's heart has been racing, my aunt Katie's blood pressure has been skyrocketing, and I've been taking more Xanax in a space of two months than I have taken in years.

None of us need this stress.

Thanks all, for your input!

Brenda











"I'll rock the darn boat all I want to, and if it's meant to stay afloat, then it will. If not, then we'll just all go down with the bloody ship!"
New Epistle, formal letter. Epithet, descriptive, usually...
insulting phrase.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New (And an epistle may deteriorate into a rant, screed, easily)

     Inquiring of the Grammar Gods here - (Nightowl) - (52)
         Tell SIL to sit on a stick and spin. - (Andrew Grygus) - (4)
             "sit and spin" is the only completely corrtect answer. - (Silverlock)
             Seconded -NT - (ben_tilly)
             Thirded. - (static)
             Fourthed?!? - (jb4)
         Your writing is fine. - (Another Scott) - (4)
             Positive Update :) - (Nightowl) - (2)
                 Like yer .sig! -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                     Thanks, me too! - (Nightowl)
             What,there's a difference?You can't enjoy trying to help?:-) -NT - (CRConrad)
         Suggested riposte, if you want this to Cease (?) - (Ashton) - (4)
             That's the hardest part, Ashton - (Nightowl) - (3)
                 Not so hard - - (Ashton) - (2)
                     Re: Not so hard - - (Nightowl)
                     Dupe: ignore, ISP hiccupped during send mode -NT - (Nightowl)
         She's an ass****e - (broomberg) - (1)
             Re: She's an ass****e - (Nightowl)
         A suggestion - (jbrabeck) - (4)
             :-) -NT - (Steve Lowe)
             Hahahah! - (Nightowl) - (1)
                 Price List: - (Ashton)
             :-) -NT - (jb4)
         Peter's Rewrite, FWIW: - (pwhysall) - (1)
             s/coagulate/rigor-mortisize/ :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
         You're fine, but giving her too much time - (hnick) - (8)
             Agreed - (Nightowl) - (7)
                 Hmmm...I always thought: "those that can't teach, teach gym" -NT - (jb4) - (6)
                     Well, yeah... but we were talking about writing... - (hnick)
                     Nope, My sister the middle school teacher's coffee cup says - (Silverlock) - (4)
                         I was just being a smartass. - (hnick) - (3)
                             Those that can't teach gym - (imric) - (1)
                                 Explains Der Karl nicely! Thanx- -NT - (jb4)
                             Being a smartass? On this board? No. Say it isn't so. - (Silverlock)
         Twain quote - (drewk) - (2)
             Voltaire(?) quote - (rcareaga) - (1)
                 "I am retuning this paper. Someone wrote on it." no origin -NT - (hnick)
         Late than never I suppose - (boxley) - (4)
             Never heard of it - (Nightowl) - (3)
                 google foo is weak, however - (boxley) - (2)
                     Here ya go. 13 kB img. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         Ain't it da Truff... - (Ashton)
         Re: Is it redundant? - (a6l6e6x) - (10)
             If I've told you once - - (Ashton) - (9)
                 Owl Vs SIL Round 1, Owl. - (Nightowl) - (8)
                     Worse than Ashtonese or Boxlish? - (Nightowl) - (5)
                         what part of "oh fine you write the dam thing" - (boxley)
                         Explanation - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                             {Guffaw!} Award: 1\ufffd Emmys + an Edgar for aptly-hidden Snide! -NT - (Ashton)
                             SILatin - (Nightowl)
                             Combining all your advice, Thanks! - (Nightowl)
                     Epistle, formal letter. Epithet, descriptive, usually... - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                         (And an epistle may deteriorate into a rant, screed, easily) -NT - (Ashton)

Powered by Agua de Culo!
192 ms