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New Didn't say it would take very long
:)

Of course, for the students that DON'T know programming, learning that will take quite a bit longer; OTOH, once they DO grok it, they will be much better positioned to correctly grok computers in general.

There are a LOT of users that have very, ummm, odd intellectual models of what's actually going on in there.

Cue Tom Waits as appropriate.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Programming Languages will influence the model
So one must be careful to choose a PL that has the proper level of abstraction for the lesson to be taught and the model to be molded. If you want them to understand it in terms of bits and bytes and machine instructions, C and it's ilk is the way to go. If you want them to understand it as a set of libraries that can be slowly dissected, then Python and similar languages can be the way to go.

Either way, both are really just models for the more abstract thought of network transport.
New Indeed
and I think a higher level view than C is the one for this. I might get a kick out of bit hacking from time to time, but I'm funny and strange.

The key concept is two apps, one with a listen socket and one connecting to it, exchanging data through a series of read and write operations to their end of the socket. Once they grok that, then things like the output (in OS/2) of
iptrace && ipformat
get a lot easier to figure out.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Definitely want high level languages

Keep this at the upper levels of the TCP/IP stack.


Tom Sinclair

Crowley was in Hell's bad books. Not that Hell has any other kind.
-- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)
     Simple network programming language? - (tjsinclair) - (51)
         Python. - (folkert)
         What Greg said. - (admin) - (3)
             That's exactly what I was thinking - (tjsinclair) - (2)
                 cautions, cause.. - (cforde) - (1)
                     Understood - (tjsinclair)
         REBOL gets you there the fastest - (ChrisR) - (4)
             Agreed. - (admin)
             I considered Java briefly - (tjsinclair) - (2)
                 Definietly not Java or anything with a compiler - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                     Granted - (tjsinclair)
         perl, creating sockets and listening is fairly easy -NT - (boxley) - (35)
             Thanks for the tip - (tjsinclair)
             But not as readable as Python. - (admin) - (33)
                 This isn't readable? - (broomberg) - (32)
                     Ben could reduce that to about 12 characters... ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (15)
                         Of course he could - (broomberg) - (14)
                             :-) Yup, but in Python one can't do that. - (Another Scott) - (11)
                                 Hmm - (broomberg) - (10)
                                     Write That Code! - (Another Scott)
                                     Sorry I'm late to the Party ... Ruby Version - (JimWeirich) - (8)
                                         Where's the error handling? - (admin) - (7)
                                             I wouldn't bet that it is missing - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                 OK, fine... but - (admin) - (5)
                                                     As I said... - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                         Near enough to Python, then. - (admin) - (3)
                                                             Re: Near enough to Python, then. - (JimWeirich) - (2)
                                                                 As I said... - (admin) - (1)
                                                                     Ahh, makes me long for the old days - (broomberg)
                             Oops. -NT - (inthane-chan)
                             ICJRLPD (new thread) - (inthane-chan)
                     As I said, "not AS readable as the Python" - (admin) - (15)
                         Not bad - (broomberg) - (4)
                             What. He. Said. - (jb4) - (3)
                                 WTF do YOU think it has on it...? - (admin)
                                 I don't think you'll be surprised. (img) - (Another Scott)
                                 Hiss - (ChrisR)
                         Wel, it's beautiful code - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                             Use the socket libraries then. - (admin)
                             It's introduction to networking - (tjsinclair) - (7)
                                 I'd go with socket basics. - (jake123) - (6)
                                     Re: I'd go with socket basics. - (admin) - (5)
                                         Didn't say it would take very long - (jake123) - (3)
                                             Programming Languages will influence the model - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                                 Indeed - (jake123) - (1)
                                                     Definitely want high level languages - (tjsinclair)
                                         Yep. -NT - (Arkadiy)
         I'd suggest Ruby... - (ben_tilly) - (2)
             I believe I stole that example from it - (broomberg)
             I'm thinking of quick and dirty HOWTO here - (tjsinclair)
         Consider Object REXX - (jake123) - (1)
             Thanks for the reminder - (tjsinclair)

Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable.
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