$880.00 for dBASE ???

SQL can be difficult to factor out repetition of code/concepts. For example, you cannot reference repeated concepts by name, having to use nesting instead, which sometimes results in duplication when the references are not really tree-shaped. Time to dump SQL for better relational languages that don't try to mirror COBOL synax.

Further, most Xbase dialects lets one define a UDF while most RDBMS do not, at least not without special previlegdes.

I am not saying Xbase is perfect, but sometimes it gets around problems found in SQL and/or MS-Access for custom chomping beyond simple queries. The industry tends to force one to use Big-Iron SQL in combination with MS-Access, and those two are both half-ass.

My current gig requires a lot of custom chomping of data, so I need better tools. My partners do a lot of shit by hand that I would rather automate somehow. I cannot compete with their manual mass-copy-and-paste efforts because I am not used to so much manual stuff. I am not geared to be keyboard clerk. The problem is that it is tough to sell them on more automation and factoring because they are so fast and used to manual typing. They get edgy when I try to introduce scripts. I think they fear being automated out of work, but won't admit it. It's not like there is not plenty to do now, but maybe in slow times the scripts could result in staff reduction.

Post #224,230 by tablizer 9/11/05 2:13:22 AM 9/11/05 2:15:34 AM Reply	$880.00 for dBASE ??? [link\|http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=541656&languageid=1&cart=1¤cies=USD,all&cookies=1&noquickbuy=1&nopflink=1\|http://esd.element5....kbuy=1&nopflink=1] Why the hell would they charge $900 for something considered a dead, legacy tool by most people? Obviously they want to milk/bilk their current (locked-in) customers rather than seek new customers. Well, that is exactly what they will get. Fucktards. FoxPro ain't much cheaper. No wonder MS-Access, a peice of crap, is more common these days. For $900 I can almost pay a bunch of Pakistani's to clone it using TCL/TK and some open-source XBase C-libraries. ________________ oop.ismad.com Edited by tablizer Sept. 11, 2005, 02:15:34 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #224,238 by warmachine 9/11/05 5:49:39 AM Reply	Educational version? [link\|http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=542466\|http://esd.element5....?productid=542466] Something thinks a school might want to teach it? Maybe we ought to find these schools and start handing out copies of mySQL or something. Or say "Here's a nickel. Get yourself a better database, son. And keep the nickel." Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #224,359 by tablizer 9/12/05 2:00:42 AM Reply	Says edu version expires in one year ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #224,260 by ben_tilly 9/11/05 10:48:32 AM Reply	If they lower the price, will they sell more copies? As you've noted, all that they have left are the locked in customers, and they aren't getting any more. So you're pissed off that they are aware of this and are acting appropriately? Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #224,265 by admin 9/11/05 10:56:34 AM Reply	Probably more pissed about the dying product ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #224,361 by tablizer 9/12/05 2:03:28 AM Reply	Nothing lasts forever, except Lisp and Lisp fanatics One day Java and Ruby will be looked upon as ugly legacy languages. Java with all its "fixes", such as its duck-taped-on meta model, is almost that now. ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #224,280 by boxley 9/11/05 11:37:06 AM Reply	try clipper :-) "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #224,292 by mmoffitt 9/11/05 1:21:11 PM Reply	DOA, too. Now, if you want something along these lines... I'd suggest: [link\|http://www.fship.com\|http://www.fship.com] Compiles most Xbase crap and will run it on Linux. As far as a "desktop database" goes, even the PITA POS MS Access is a hell of a lot better than Xbase. Xbase is just so 80's. ;0) bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #224,308 by boxley 9/11/05 5:20:12 PM Reply	xbase is useful, access is just annoying "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #224,415 by mmoffitt 9/12/05 1:01:55 PM Reply	For very small values of 'useful' ;0) bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #224,452 by boxley 9/12/05 4:33:35 PM Reply	wrote automated Grocery store inventory and sales with xbase bar-codes scanning registers, inventory restocking levels, complete GL accounting. Tad more than small. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #224,458 by mmoffitt 9/12/05 4:47:26 PM Reply	Same here. But I moved on. Worked for a Fortune 100 company that did its entire GL with it, also ASN notification (internal and external customers) and personally wrote a golf shop app that handled multiple stores - inventory, barcode, point-of-sale, quoting, etc. Still, unless you're working with very small datasets, it sucks. And, it's moot anyway because it is dead or nearly so. I was a Clipperhead from 1986-1994. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #224,467 by tuberculosis 9/12/05 5:13:40 PM Reply	Grumpfish Lives! "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #224,472 by mmoffitt 9/12/05 5:27:50 PM Reply	Hadn't thought of that in years. ;0) bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #224,477 by admin 9/12/05 5:52:22 PM Reply	Bleargh. Ever use Zachary? Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #224,579 by tuberculosis 9/13/05 1:20:59 PM Reply	Nope "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #224,488 by boxley 9/12/05 6:16:39 PM Reply	fun stuff for its day, after working with Oracle the last 2 years I find the suckage rate not to be that bad. Clarify I am not a DBA Im a sysadm who had to support DBA's with differing values of Suck thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #224,523 by tablizer 9/13/05 12:51:41 AM Reply	Beats SQL for some things SQL can be difficult to factor out repetition of code/concepts. For example, you cannot reference repeated concepts by name, having to use nesting instead, which sometimes results in duplication when the references are not really tree-shaped. Time to dump SQL for better relational languages that don't try to mirror COBOL synax. Further, most Xbase dialects lets one define a UDF while most RDBMS do not, at least not without special previlegdes. I am not saying Xbase is perfect, but sometimes it gets around problems found in SQL and/or MS-Access for custom chomping beyond simple queries. The industry tends to force one to use Big-Iron SQL in combination with MS-Access, and those two are both half-ass. My current gig requires a lot of custom chomping of data, so I need better tools. My partners do a lot of shit by hand that I would rather automate somehow. I cannot compete with their manual mass-copy-and-paste efforts because I am not used to so much manual stuff. I am not geared to be keyboard clerk. The problem is that it is tough to sell them on more automation and factoring because they are so fast and used to manual typing. They get edgy when I try to introduce scripts. I think they fear being automated out of work, but won't admit it. It's not like there is not plenty to do now, but maybe in slow times the scripts could result in staff reduction. ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #224,363 by tablizer 9/12/05 2:07:29 AM Reply	Gotta register to SEE prices? Suspicious Besides, it appears to be a Clipper clone, and clipper tends to be less interactive than interpretative dialects. ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #224,830 by mmoffitt 9/15/05 2:36:29 PM Reply	Huh? Personal is Free for download. Whatchasmokin' dude? [link\|http://www.fship.com/prices.html\|http://www.fship.com/prices.html] bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #231,611 by tablizer 10/30/05 11:54:53 PM Reply	Free version is Linux only Nothing against Linux, but due to QWERTY syndrome, most biz's use Windows. ________________ oop.ismad.com
Post #232,165 by mmoffitt 11/2/05 3:23:17 PM Reply	But you don't have to just to eval it. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #224,428 by jb4 9/12/05 2:03:21 PM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #224427 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=224427\|ICLRPD] jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #224,362 by tablizer 9/12/05 2:04:28 AM Reply	Clipper is not interactive enough for my tastes ________________ oop.ismad.com

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