How can I connect to a Telnet app via the web?

The problem we're trying to solve is that we're replacing MicroVAXes in the field offices with thin clients talking to a webserver. Issue is we still need access to the VAX apps. They will still run on a single box sitting next to the webserver. Problem is some of the field offices have flaky, intermittent connectivity. If you're on step 11 of a 13-step process and your session drops, you lose everything.

I've seen java applets that run in the browser and look like a telnet session. This would maintain the telnet connection on the server side, but I don't know how full-featured the telnet implementation is. Other alternatives are VNC, Windows Terminal Services, other ...

So what works? Someone has to have done this before. And all I can find online is MUD clients and terminal emulators. I need something that maintains the telnet connection on the server side, and has full(ish)[1] support for the telnet protocol.

PS: I suspect the best solution is to set up a low-end Linux box, run a couple of dozen sessions on it, and VNC to that. But I'm not installing or supporting any of it, so there's limits to how much my opinion will count.

[1] I don't know of anything we don't need, but I also don't know for sure what we do need.

Current system: MicroVAX in each field office. Users log on locally via Reflections.

New system: Everyone access the single DEC in the server room via thin clients with web access in the field offices.

Due to flaky communication, we don't want to use telnet from the field offices. One solution is to run the telnet session in the server room, then connect to that session somehow via internet on the thin client.

Current thinking is Terminal Services and Java apps are "too thick". (Not my description, or my thinking.) Suspicion (again not mine) is that anything based on sending bitmaps -- ala VNC -- will be equally slow. I'm convinced someone has figured out how to separate the textual display of the terminal from the telnet session.

Or are we inventing our own problem here? Is it true that an intermittent connection will keep dropping telnet sessions?

Post #223,232 by drewk 9/6/05 6:56:08 PM Reply	How can I connect to a Telnet app via the web? The problem we're trying to solve is that we're replacing MicroVAXes in the field offices with thin clients talking to a webserver. Issue is we still need access to the VAX apps. They will still run on a single box sitting next to the webserver. Problem is some of the field offices have flaky, intermittent connectivity. If you're on step 11 of a 13-step process and your session drops, you lose everything. I've seen java applets that run in the browser and look like a telnet session. This would maintain the telnet connection on the server side, but I don't know how full-featured the telnet implementation is. Other alternatives are VNC, Windows Terminal Services, other ... So what works? Someone has to have done this before. And all I can find online is MUD clients and terminal emulators. I need something that maintains the telnet connection on the server side, and has full(ish)[1] support for the telnet protocol. PS: I suspect the best solution is to set up a low-end Linux box, run a couple of dozen sessions on it, and VNC to that. But I'm not installing or supporting any of it, so there's limits to how much my opinion will count. [1] I don't know of anything we don't need, but I also don't know for sure what we do need. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #223,236 by boxley 9/6/05 7:09:55 PM Reply	goglobal, vnc, terminal services does the web app require input from the telnet session or is it a separate process? thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #223,242 by drewk 9/6/05 7:26:39 PM Reply	Dunno Current system: MicroVAX in each field office. Users log on locally via Reflections. New system: Everyone access the single DEC in the server room via thin clients with web access in the field offices. Due to flaky communication, we don't want to use telnet from the field offices. One solution is to run the telnet session in the server room, then connect to that session somehow via internet on the thin client. Current thinking is Terminal Services and Java apps are "too thick". (Not my description, or my thinking.) Suspicion (again not mine) is that anything based on sending bitmaps -- ala VNC -- will be equally slow. I'm convinced someone has figured out how to separate the textual display of the terminal from the telnet session. Or are we inventing our own problem here? Is it true that an intermittent connection will keep dropping telnet sessions? === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #223,260 by boxley 9/6/05 8:40:26 PM Reply	telnet is of itself not connection oriented it is a stream of packets carrying one character at a time. What usually horks the telnet session is a timeout, where the server determines the next character isnt coming soon and hangs up. Telnet accross the net isnt that secure anyway so best practise is to establish connectivity with your Dec server then connect to the othrs from there. Even better a ssh enabled terminal server to connect to from the outside. SSL perhaps instead so people could use a "browser" look and feel. Something like this [link\|http://www.cail.com/systems_CMCSecCon.html\|http://www.cail.com/...ms_CMCSecCon.html] thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #223,322 by pwhysall 9/7/05 1:11:12 AM Reply	It's a TCP protocol, so is connection-oriented Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #223,370 by boxley 9/7/05 9:33:08 AM Reply	swat I said its the transport not the app "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #223,317 by folkert 9/7/05 12:44:41 AM Reply	For one thing... Don't use Telnet. And yes, putty does telnet better than most. It also does SSH. Not I know both personally and indirectly that openSSH runs on VMS. There ar a few tricks, but it is very doable. You might just want to mention that Telnet is plain text. SSH is a much better solution, best of all most SSH Clients can manage to hang onto a connection much better than telnet (including Putty) -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [image\|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg\|\|\|\|]
Post #223,325 by drewk 9/7/05 1:36:40 AM Reply	Where does Reflections come in? That's what they currently use. Am I mixing up the terminology to say that they're using telnet? === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #223,328 by pwhysall 9/7/05 1:46:11 AM Reply	Reflection is a terminal emulator... ...and one of the protocols it supports is Telnet. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #223,388 by folkert 9/7/05 10:12:03 AM Reply	DING...DING...DING! Some companies use a Suite of things when they only need a Terminal Emulator. Reflections is a suite, of which one of the protocols it supports is telnet. Cost is mucho too much for just an emulator. Drew: Try Putty and see if it works and turn on the keepalives. They could do that now and still keep Reflections. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [image\|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg\|\|\|\|]
Post #223,393 by drewk 9/7/05 10:26:12 AM Reply	Looks like putty connects Time to go track down someone who knows the old system and can try it out. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #223,327 by pwhysall 9/7/05 1:44:52 AM Reply	PuTTY and SSH Coupla points, mostly in a "what you said" stylee. Firstly, PuTTY is excellent at hanging onto a connection, as long as you turn on the keepalives. It has a habit of letting connections time out if you don't. Secondly, yes, SSH does run on VMS, but unless Droo's people have got a software subscription, those MicroVAXen are likely to be running something reasonably ancient (i.e. VMS 6.x or even earlier), and SSH is only supported on VMS 7.3 onward. It works teh roxxor. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #223,271 by mmoffitt 9/6/05 8:59:51 PM Reply	SSL/VPN appliance? I'm sure you could roll your own, but we bought a Juniper appliance for (among other things) doing just that. If you've got money for it that is. ;0) bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell

Welcome to IWETHEY!