Careful of the last phrase.

Post #22,193 by Ashton 12/21/01 1:01:21 AM Reply	Careful of the last phrase. As even our Selected Resident said.. there's lots we don't know about (how he got there from here). In particular: at what point he morphed from religious zealot to Terrorist/soldier/partisan. If he did. Had he any alternative to being where he was? (Would he have been killed if he didn't go?) Remember, when he first went there, we weren't in any war (and we still aren't - for many pseudo-legal purposes and even post-Ashcroftian faux-legal complications - yet to be vetted by USSC for Constitutionality.) He may be just what many already concluded he 'is' (from first day). He may have volunteered for full er Terror Commando ball o'wax. Maybe. Then again. Gosh Beep: cantcha see it? This be another Test Case.. like our friend Colonel McSally's test case. Wanna rush to judgment? Wanna sell that ol' time necktie justice to the watchin World? Ain't Wars Against Evil\ufffd ever so stimulatin? Just never know where you'll spot some evil.. lurkin in a grimace, or under a speech. Ashton
Post #22,196 by bepatient 12/21/01 1:31:12 AM Reply	And still... ...does this apply to what this thread is about? Legal representation for someone who admitted (at least per the reports) to being a member of the club getting clubbed. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #22,199 by Ashton 12/21/01 2:05:43 AM Reply	No, not on that narrow point.. at least, as you point out: the idiocy of flyin-in a lawyer to a warship! Nary an argument there. Stand corrected. It's difficult sometimes to separate out the minor issues (like this specific one) from the overall ranting both ways: poor misguided innocent / devious SOB. I say - if he's competent, the burden of proof is on him to account (with whatever 'witnesses'? as are possible). But if he's a deranged naif and lost any chance to opt-out and also live, long before 9/11 ?? Any way you slice it he's 'different' for being a Murican citizen - now if they'd offed him (as with bin-L next ??) all the niceties would have disappeared with the breath. (I just thought you'd like a little chance to empathize with the angst of growin up in a special kind of Murican ghetto.. maybe kinda like Billy? But I see you're just cruel - prolly think he enjoyed it! :( :-\ufffd
Post #22,214 by dmarker2 12/21/01 9:51:07 AM Reply	Re: 2 points of view on Walker 1) When I was young & naive (19) I applied to go to the University of Moscow (during the midst of the cold war) - seemed like a great idea at the time - thank god they were only interested in black africans & never took me up on the offer - so I never got the chance to be stupid & in any way betray my country - lucky lucky lucky me (my honest mature opinion). 2) John Walker seems to have actually acted out what to me at 19 were just fantasies (I guess). Anyway - my issue with him is if he caused any American fatalities - if so he must pay the price - if not let him go. I have half a suspicion he did. But suspicions aside - he should be judged fairly BUT!!! - why should he - in this conflict - get legal (O J Simpson type) support when his Arab mates are being cut to pieces - does he get the advantage because he is really 'one o us' or is he really 'one o them' in which case do we offer lawyers to all the Al-Qaeda fighters (what a crock o' shit). Cheers Doug Marker (I can at least face any accusers about any culpability for my naive fantasys)
Post #22,242 by Brandioch 12/21/01 1:42:27 PM Reply	Anyone have any clarifications? #1. Is it >LEGAL< to join another country's military force? #1a. If it was LEGAL for him to do that, how is he a traitor? #2. What happens to the OTHER people captured with him after this "war" is over? #2a. Why should what happens to him be any different that what happens to the others? #3. What is the definition of "traitor" here, anyway?
Post #22,319 by dmarker2 12/23/01 7:21:26 AM Reply	Re: If Walker was responsible in any way for Spann's death ! I assume you have been reading the press and the posts here !. We (well many of us) are aware that Spann interviewed Walker the day before he died & didn't know Walker was American. Spann was attacked 1st thing the next morning. There are enough questions here that need answers. Serious questions - certainly not naive uninformed guesswork or opinions. So if Walker can be proved to have been involved in Spann's death then he is a b***** traitor. I am sure this message come thru ? D
Post #22,340 by Ashton 12/23/01 4:50:38 PM Reply	Have to reread the rulez for 'traitor' though - Something re "two [reliable ??] eye-witnesses to an act". Yada & yada. Of course it is a coincidence demanding vetting - if there's any possible non-hysterical way of doing vet-'science' in the milieu? I see this as just another test; hysteria or some semblance of open and sane procedures, despite the (undeclared) 'war' status? After all, isn't that precisely where all rulez about 'individual rights' must be Tested? It's EZ about speeding tickets and glossing over Corporate/BOD crimes. Hardest amidst wannabe lynch mobs. (Like the sit-ins in the South.. another 'Cheney', a Liuzzo and a few others - then). So.. keep watchin for what we finally 'do'; never mind the rhetoric, wipe that off yer boots before they smell up the house. Ashton

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