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New Something good came out of it.
Any future server I set up will be Debian-based. :D
apt-get install godlike-powers
New You sure about that?
You ever need to talk to an EMC array?
RH or Suse.

You gotta run Oracle?
RH or Suse.

You wanna run SAS?
RH or Suse.

You need to run (insert 3rd party software here)?
Most likely RH or Suse.

You need to present to a board of directors on why
Linux makes a good business case to the back-office,
and how you have a line of support they can trust?
RH or Suse.

In almost every example, you can force the debian to work.

But the 1st hint of a problem, the vendor laughs at you and
you are screwed. You then save the day, kill yourself
working amazing hours, and pull it out of a hat.

Won't matter.

If you don't put forth a migration plan to RH or Suse
at that moment you'll be out of a job in a few months,
replaced by the RH or Suse proponent who can point to
the corp support.

Or worse, Windows.

If you are serious about Linux adminning in a real corp
environment, there are several types.

I'll ignore the small mom/pop shop that you can get away with
anything and they aren't using it for anything other than
native stuff, ie: Samba, email, proxy, firewall, Postgres,
etc. All the things you can do on any Linux system, and
the ability to use apt-get is a wonderful.

There is the dot com / tech product / core techie environment.
Trying to save money, and willing to take risks. Not that
I think think debian is more of a risk, just that from a commercial
support OUTSIDE the org perspective, it doesn't rate. If you
need RH compat, but unwilling to pay, then you can use White Box.

And White Box will still require RH skills.

There is the technically advanced environment, home brew code,
has at LEAST 3 admins (2 active while one on vacation) who know
their shit, and does not require 3rd party apps on all boxes.

At that point, they can setup a farm of debian boxes for their
home brew / Open Source code, and a couple of isolated RH or Suse
boxes to run any required 3rd party apps. You still need the RH/Suse
ability, and it is still critical, but hopefully it is low volume
enough that your missing RH skills are not a killer.

Then there is the corp env like mine. Linux is one of multiple OS
environments, we got Solaris, windows and MVS as well. We'd like to
minimize the number of admins, and we'd like to not have to deal with
multiple distributions. We want tech support, and we have to be able
to point to the next step in the support chain who will help us fix
problems.

We need about 1/2 our systems to either run commerical software or talk
to an EMC array. This means we MUST use RH or Suse for those, and we've
settled on RH. Our admins are comfortable RPMing, and all our systems
are registered for RH patching / support.

So no point in introducing yet another distribution into the mix here,
it just requires yet another skill set, or a wizard like Greg. Not
a lot of those around here, at least not when I was interviewing for
the position.
New post bookmarked, thanx
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Call it "until I know WTF I'm doing."
After all, I'm still a n00b - admittedly, a n00b with apt-get, but still a n00b.
apt-get install godlike-powers
New At least it's Red Hat OR Suse
Couple of years ago it looked like it was going to be Red Hat and Red Hat only. When there are at least two there's a little wiggle room, though not much.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Well there is some good news...
The DCCA or Debian Core Consortium Association.

This is a group that has the big Debian based distros and Debian discussing the divergence issues. This one doing this work another doing that work, 3 of them duplicating each others work... etc.

The whole premise behind the DCCA is to reduce time-to-release and to enhance what everyone wants and to be 100% compatible on *AT LEAST* the Core programs and libraries, Kernels, etc...

Since it took a LONG time for Debian Sarge to come along, Debian started to splinter into groups that just wanted to get stuff shipped with reasonable effort and within reasonable timeframe to even matter. There are a few things that this will accomplish.
  1. Make a single Moving target for ISVs to aim for to support 10+ Debian Distributions
  2. Ability to syncronize and keep the "Core" releaseable at any time
  3. Cause other issues with non-core things to be marginalized during a release cycle
  4. Competitors using Debian based packages can benefit and give benefit at the same time
  5. Allow for more reasonable release cycles and security fixes
  6. Support for the core components could be extended for 5 years+
  7. More adoption of apt packaging for more things like Oracle, EMC, etc...
In that list, I honestly believe they will be able to garner the support they need to influence the ISVs to support the DCC with the software they build/write.

Hopefully, this will actually make things better, not worse. AS we all know Debian Proper is an ALL Volunteer organization... and the DFSG doesn't allow for coercion to do tasks.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
[image|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg||||]
New Sounds good.
I thought you were going to tell us that you just saved a bunch of money by ...

Oh.

:-)

[link|http://www.dccalliance.org/index.html|DCC Alliance].

I hope that the Ubuntu partisans cooperate with such an effort (and vice versa). Ubuntu is great having an enthusiastic community, but I wouldn't want them to become the defacto-Debian distribution. One of Debian's great strengths is that it is a large, open effort. Having all of the popular distributions on board would make it a stronger effort.

Some comments about it and Ubuntu are [link|http://lwn.net/Articles/146959/|here]. FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Cool...an expert!
So, Barry, for those of us who arent (and that definitely means me), what sort of package meanagementis SuSE using? And will that apt4rpm thinger work on SuSE?

thanx-
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Hah! Not me
My desktop at the office is Suse because (um, I forget, something about 64 bit opteron support before anything else).

Anyway, I never use the built in package manager. I seem to recall it was part of YAST, but not sure.
New package management
download src.gz configure, make, fix issues, make install how hard is that?
were are IT folks not longshoremen. If the longshore union ever figure out apt-get we are in deep kimchee.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Agree.
Although I have only sparing experience with any non-RH distro, I haven't used rpm (except for commercial s/w that doesn't offer a choice - like IBM DB2 UDB fer instance) in a long time. I do an install with as little as possible and build everything I need from source whenever possible. Works much better for me.
bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #220158 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=220158|ICLRPD]
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

     Yeah, you suck. - (pwhysall) - (12)
         Something good came out of it. - (inthane-chan) - (11)
             You sure about that? - (broomberg) - (10)
                 post bookmarked, thanx -NT - (boxley)
                 Call it "until I know WTF I'm doing." - (inthane-chan)
                 At least it's Red Hat OR Suse - (Andrew Grygus)
                 Well there is some good news... - (folkert) - (1)
                     Sounds good. - (Another Scott)
                 Cool...an expert! - (jb4) - (4)
                     Hah! Not me - (broomberg)
                     package management - (boxley) - (2)
                         Agree. - (mmoffitt)
                         ICLRPD (new thread) - (jb4)

Here come the witnesses.
150 ms