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Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Alternate Apple browsers on OS X
At last count:

OmniWeb
Opera (still in preview, I think)
iCab
Mozilla
Netscape 6.x (I know, a more 'consumer-friendly' Mozilla but different enough to rate separate mention.)


On the text-based side:
Lynx
Links

We also have curl and wget which allow us to download Web content automagically to our hard drives, among other things.)

Mmmmmmm.....choices......<drools>
Tom Sinclair
Speaker-to-Suits

Many an ancient lord's last words had been, "You can't kill me because I've
got magic aaargh."
-- Magic armour is not all it's cracked up to be.
(Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times)
New Yabut that's...
Unix er Applix er anyway - I'm presuming OS-X ain't fer newbies - but a decent morph to 'Linux' for them as had Apple tendencies (?)

Guess I {sigh} gotta edjacate self.. 'least I've prolly saved self ~$10K by not going through Steve's slow crawl up from the 128K - at $2500 a pop.. (I played with a pre-release Mac; friend was an editor for Mc Graw-Hill Electronics - once the premier mag of that genre. Now it's toast. Bought Apple stock. Won.)

Damn - look at all the inflection points when, had they been less greedy, they coulda cleaned Billykin's Clock and Steve'd be The Beast and.. we'd never have heard much of that terminally whiny voice :( At least Steve talks ~ like a human.

Anyways it's gettin to be a Decision matter for me - whether to CP/M my way through all the incessant Linux details enroute to competence OR:

Recognize that I rilly don't Want another 100 Gbytes of neurons filled with all those details and maybe.. just maybe.. Apple's not only ready for prime time, but can *survive* Billy..

Y'know?





I want my Mommy. Mommy! which way should I go - there's a forque in The Road Ahead (ever skim that piece of autistic doggerel? ugh.) Now if I had a late model Appul with std OS - I could (I bet) dual boot and have Both Worlds piece by piece! Hmmmm


Ashton the Vacillating
New Actually, OS X is very newbie friendly..
as well as catering to the geeky techno-user. The main people who seem to have problems with it are the ones who have customized their OS 9 environment to a gnat's-eyelash and have tuned their muscle memory so they waste as little energy as possible getting things done. (Primarily graphics and design folk, I think but I'm willing to be corrected.)

Anyway, there are two faces of OS X:

- Newbie-friendly: Big colorful photorealistic icons, a nice friendly toolbar on the Finder window, a simplified (single-window) Finder as a default choice, the Dock, animations and transparency effects to show you when something happens and what it probably was.

- Geeky Techno crowd: What can I say...BSD layer, complete with CLI, built-in Apache/Sendmail, built-in directory service (Netinfo) accessible to admins which can also be tied to NIS/LDAP, Java 2, GNU tools, so forth and so on.

So the level of complexity experienced by an OS X user varies by the user.

I'm reminded of Trip Hawkins (Of Electronic Arts) definition of a good computer game: simple, hot and deep.

simple - easy to get started without having to read 50 page manuals. Just jumpt right in.

hot - once you're in, you are pulled into the game experience and encouraged to continue playing.

deep - as your skill and knowledge grows, more of the game reveals itself to you, further drawing you in.

Speaking of OS X, I was trying to explain XML to a beginning CS student of mine tonight. I explained that XML was a markup language with roots in SGML (I pulled up a 10-Q filing on www.sec.gov and showed him the tags) Then it occurred to me where I could find a local example of XML.

OS X keeps it's configuration files (referred to as 'Preferences') in XML format. So you can edit them in a plain old text editor or use a GUI tool (supplied with the Developer Tools). So I pulled up the preferences for Appleworks and showed him the tags and the data.

As for multi-boot, I know you can dual-boot PPC-based Linux and Mac OS 9. Mac OS X dual-boots with Mac OS 9, so you can in theory triple-boot between OS 9, Linux and OS X. (Of course, if you log in as >console, you're dropped out of the Aqua GUI and into a Darwin text login prompt from which you can run XFree86, an X Window manager and all of your favorite *NIX tools.

So maybe that's quadruple booting.

Oops, forgot Virtual PC which will let you run:

- DOS
- Windows 3.x
- Windows 9x
- Windows NT 3.x/4
- Windows 2000
- Windows ME
- Windows XP
- OS/2
- x86 Linux
- x86 BSD
- x86 Solaris (I presume. I may try this myself)



Okay, by this time I'm just showing off.

I agree that Apple HW is pricey and a big step for Wintel users. (The price gap is beginning to close, however.) I think that in most cases, getting those folks a copy of Linux is a good step. But OS X and *NIX integrate so well that I hope that we reach a state of The Best Tool for the Job(tm), relying on common, open standards rather than common HW/SW to allow folks to work together.

Thus endeth the lesson.

Tom Sinclair
Speaker-to-Suits

It is said that whosoever the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad. In
fact, whosoever the gods wish to destroy, they first hand the equivalent of
a stick with a fizzing fuse and Acme Dynamite Company written on the side.
It's more interesting, and doesn't take so long.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
New Many thanks for nifty intro
If Apple isn't the new Swiss Army Knife ... dunno what is. Now if an Apple dealer had said the same thing (!) Thus far has bizness credibility fallen.. to ~0. Looking forward to next query, what should I do?

(Will show him/her this thread) Maybe learn along with newbie. Two birds; one stoned. My main point would be (in advance): HW cost is a Red Herring, when you consider the tribulations of lock-in, in bed with The Beast; or the learning curve to maintain by yourself, a Linux install - from the point of only GUI experience in an office.

Just one other consideration: I grok the reasons why a full backup of Windoze demands an image - too many open files, etc. Is a full backup of OS- 9 or X equivalent: a Ghost-like image save, partition by partition?

That is, thinking newbie EZ-save/restore. If you have full data backups, a complete restoration ever beats minute troubleshooting - unless you just like problem solving. Most users don't like or can't do.

{sniff} no more SpinRite though.. :( Doubt you could get through DOS-emulator layer to the guts, as SR must. Oh Well - at $100 a pop, who needs to test HDs anymore?


Thanks again,

Ashton
New Backup/Restore
Don't have an exact answer to this, but I'll try anyway.

As far as I know, there isn't an equivalent to Ghost on the Mac OS side except for Apple Software Restore, a utility that will let you create a bootable installer CD with all of your apps (poss. data as well) on it.

I've also seen instructions for creating a custom OS X installer CD on the net as well.
Tom Sinclair
Speaker-to-Suits

"Well, basically there are two sorts of opera,' said Nanny, who also had
the true witch's ability to be confidently expert on the basis of no
experience whatsoever. 'There's your heavy opera, where basically people
sing foreign and it goes like "Oh oh oh, I am dyin', oh, I am dyin', oh,
oh, oh, that's what I'm doin'", and there's your light opera, where they
sing in foreign and it basically goes "Beer! Beer! Beer! Beer! I like to
drink lots of beer!", although sometimes they drink champagne instead.
That's basically all of opera, really."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Maskerade)
New But there's Tosca: Ya want me? Over your dead body Scarpia!
New LRPD sez:When someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!
     stopping 3 year old hackers - (boxley) - (26)
         Re: stopping 3 year old hackers - (wharris2) - (1)
             >=6 <=8 non alphas present for most sys - (boxley)
         He heh heh, 3 year old cracker - (nking) - (2)
             No, fairly complex passwd I am sure it is a single mode key - (boxley) - (1)
                 Command + s on bootup = single user mode. - (Another Scott)
         Re: stopping 3 year old hackers - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
             powered off unplugged :) -NT - (boxley)
         There most certainly is a single user mode - (tuberculosis) - (18)
             Indeed - (tjsinclair) - (17)
                 Thanks for review of OSX, Tom! -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
                     I got a bit carried away - (tjsinclair) - (2)
                         hey I said in 1986 that if they wanted a useful OS (to me) - (boxley) - (1)
                             You're welcome - (tjsinclair)
                 Good God, did Apple do something right? - (wharris2) - (1)
                     You can't go wrong copying *BSD Unix - (nking)
                 Stop it! - (static) - (10)
                     Umm me too.. by proxy at least. - (Ashton) - (9)
                         well the imac comes pre-installed with office software - (boxley) - (8)
                             Thanks, noted for ref. - (Ashton) - (7)
                                 Alternate Apple browsers on OS X - (tjsinclair) - (6)
                                     Yabut that's... - (Ashton) - (5)
                                         Actually, OS X is very newbie friendly.. - (tjsinclair) - (4)
                                             Many thanks for nifty intro - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                 Backup/Restore - (tjsinclair)
                                                 But there's Tosca: Ya want me? Over your dead body Scarpia! -NT - (Ashton)
                                             LRPD sez:When someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES! -NT - (Ashton)

I may have trouble bruising, but the above mentioned injuries left red areas.
64 ms