Post #218,163
8/8/05 4:01:46 PM
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How is that a 'loophole' unless
Unless you are actively AGAINST business use of the source code.
Unless you are actively FOR making the GPL truly 'viral'.
It is ridiculous in the context that the FSF says (but apparently does not mean) that they have no problem with profitable use of the source - after all, what business will hire programmers to work on GPLv3 code when the get NO competitive advantage out of it? Aside from software publishers (a tiny minority of businesses), that is.
As I said earlier, it seems that GPLv3 is all about removing a valuable feature of GPLed code, but only for non-software publishers - the source code itself? I mean, what business would care about source code availability when they can't actually USE it to their advantage?
No, unless this is changed by the time it is released, watch for a HUGE licensing fork.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #218,169
8/8/05 4:05:12 PM
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It's a loophole for the FSF.
Current business models of closed-source code (and, indeed, pseudo-closed-source, like they claim web services to be) are counter to the stated ideals and intentions of the guardians of the GPL.
The virality or not of the GPL is incidental; if that's what it takes to ensure that the licence cannot be breached, then that is what they will do.
The interests of "business" are just not taken into account by the GPL; it's an ideology made flesh in the form of a legal instrument, and one that only gains its edge by subverting copyright law.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #218,171
8/8/05 4:07:22 PM
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http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=21
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=218168|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=218168]
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #218,173
8/8/05 4:10:54 PM
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Your point?
The FSF don't care at all about that, and that is precisely the point I'm trying to convey.
You will NEVER sway the FSF with an argument about "business" or "the workplace".
It's a bit like trying to convince a Republican of the virtues of a rise in income tax in order to subsidise free healthcare for all.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #218,177
8/8/05 4:28:30 PM
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I started this
trying to get somebody to tell me where I was wrong.
The GPL is the FSF's, true.
The software is not.
I think v3 is a disaster that will wreck what could be a revolution in software development; and software has never been more important than it is now. If I can't sway the FSF (and you're right, I think I'd have more luck trying to talk the Hubble back into orbit), then I'll take my misgivings to forums, hoping to reach developers. If they all say "fuck you, and fuck business", then the code base will split, one for business, one for the FSF disciples, and the FSF will deserve both obscurity and curses.
I truly hope my paramism (pessanoia?) is misplaced, but I don't think so.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #218,175
8/8/05 4:25:20 PM
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Business Interests
From where I sit, most businesses don't want or care to modify the source of the software. They don't really care to sink dollars into the development of such programs as MySQL or Apache. They do care, however, about the apps that ride on top of these packages.
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Post #218,178
8/8/05 4:28:35 PM
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Most businesses...
...end up buying Oracle.
Not entirely facetious, I wot.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #218,179
8/8/05 4:29:02 PM
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Same difference, if the apps are GPLed.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #218,240
8/8/05 6:45:32 PM
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It's contrary to the spirit of the GPL
The basic spirit of the GPL is that if you take GPL software and modify it and then make that software available to others, for money or for free, then you must also make the source available. The 'web services' ploy lets companies get around that, taking GPL software and making money off of it without making the code public. The GPL was intentionally designed (in part) to prevent exactly that because of the abuse the BSD liscense had suffered over the years. Unless you are actively AGAINST business use of the source code. The GPL is not anti-buisness. It is pro-personal freedom, even when that gets in the way of buisness profits. Jay
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Post #218,289
8/8/05 10:16:36 PM
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Except, of course
the BSD is working as designed. USE is all. Ask Brett Glass.
And if the GPLed software is not redistributed (and it is not, via web services) then there is no harm, no foul. Only if the profits being made are what is being resented is there a problem. Listening to the arguments here, I have to believe that's the case.
v3. Anti-business and designed that way.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #218,298
8/8/05 10:47:55 PM
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Not anti-Buisness
The GPL is not anti-buisness. It is pro-end-user freedom. That this freedom gets in the way of buisness sometimes is a not so unfortunate side effect.
And in any case, if your really intent on being pro-buisness then you shouldn't support any OSS at all. The ability to download BSD gets in the way of Microsoft charging you for an OS after all.
I also think you are missing some serious considerations that mean even for buisness use the GPL has advantages. For instance, why would anybody ever release software under the BSD liscense? For a buisness all it is doing is lowering the entrance cost of competition, who will find it easier to get into the buisness if they don't have to write software from the ground up. And for a single developer, the GPL forces any company that builds on my work to pay me for my work by making their changes available also.
More over, even if a company never plans to modify software, there is an advantage to the GPL. By making the code available, you fight platform lock in and can see what the system actually does. Even if the vendor goes out of buisness, my companies ability to use that platform is not destroyed.
Jay
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Post #218,300
8/8/05 10:50:32 PM
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*shrug* same as BSD
You've all managed to convince me that Brett Glass was right from the start. I am ashamed.
Mark my words, though, there will be a licensing fork to end all licensing forks if the GPLv3 is not changed.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
