None so blind as those who won't see

Post #217,885 by Arkadiy 8/6/05 8:45:16 PM 8/6/05 8:56:35 PM Reply	None so blind as those who won't see Well, you look straight atv one of better illustrations of the difference between the Knowledge from a tree and "knowledge" as we know it, and you refuse to admit it as such. Instead, you write it off as a sign of "fiction". Consider it again please: when a man and a women who haven't had a bad thought in their whole life (and they were cretated adults, not todlers) all of a sudden feel that they should not be naked, to me it's a sign that they have been deeply transformed. They now know what can be done to a naked human. And they know that the are now capable of it themselves. Sex, the blessed way to be fruitful and multiply (and, in case you didn't know, Cain was concieved in Eden), becomes just another activity that may be used for evil. Mind you, the good side of sex is still here, but the dark side is now with them too. Please remember the rape analogy - you look at your wife and realise, for the first time, that rape is possible. There are more signs that can tell you how deep was the change causes by the Tree of knowledge, not just in Adam and Eve but in the world. God says that the world was "good" after it was created. There was no evil in it. The evil had to be brought in from the outside. After the Fall, the evil is a part of the world. God never gets to say "good" about it again. Again, I am not an expert. If you care to know, go talk to someone who knows. I realise that spouting comfortable nonsence in an atheist company is easier, but if you aspire to intellectual honesty, you need to go learn what the other side is saying. Edit: oh yes, and you skipped right over my whole paragraph about the world being different and Evil being unnecessary. Please remember: Tree of Knowledge is not the full name. It was Tree of KNowledge of Good and Evil. Not all knowledge was denied. Adam already knew enough to give true names to every living thing. No, it was only the knowldge of Evil. ANd, by contrast, knowldge of Good. As to wheteher it was necessary for free will - I don't know. I'd be hard t pressed to write a book where characters don't suffer, don't have temptations and yet obviously have free will. Try it some time. See where it takes you. ------ 179. I will not outsource core functions. -- [link\|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm\|.] Edited by Arkadiy Aug. 6, 2005, 08:56:35 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #217,886 by boxley 8/6/05 8:50:15 PM Reply	I'll explain it in terms he can understand A alien genetic scientist inserted a strand of dna into these very bright apes that would introduce guilt and evil and wanted them to thank him for his efforts. somehow I think he would buy that. thanx. bill Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #217,906 by warmachine 8/6/05 10:58:44 PM Reply	Prefer a mad scientist idea The biblical god is an ultra-tech being who throw a fit when his subjects discredited his pet theory. The garden of eden was the laboratory and mankind was dumped on the Earth because ethics prevent extermination of sentient beings. Or there's always this idea [link\|http://www.ghastlycomic.com/d/20031019.html\|http://www.ghastlyco...m/d/20031019.html] Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #217,913 by boxley 8/7/05 12:16:44 AM Reply	that last frame......sez it all Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #217,899 by Ashton 8/6/05 10:31:44 PM Reply	Seems as if Core Functions ___ were outsourced. Let us now ~~praise famous men~~ braise famous Avatars. Dismissing all other metaphors than your fav one as, 'held by atheists' - may comfort you against daily Uncertainty, but it is more than just-intellectually dishonest flippancy. Petulance? Then too, imagining that these 'metaphors you live by' were somehow Original 2000 years ago: just Discovered! then! and solely within this small group and its guru: that's not 'dishonest', that just betrays ignorance of the history of the world and of its many fav metaphysical tries at 'solutions' to the Mystery that anything Is. But concluding, from both ignorance and dishonest appraisal of all that knowlege and a few chunks of wisdom as occasionally surface: that The Truth, the whole Truth andnothingbut -- is Your Group's. (And by osmosis) Yours? That is beyond any possibility of discussion. That's for your pulpit amongst the Convinced, who need to hear it often, ever to feel safe-enough. It also remains the stuff of guaranteed interminable planetary warfare over the Conceit of human spokespersons -- and their flocks of outsourcing-sheep - unwilling/too-lazy to do their own internal research. (We wouldn't be able to discuss your 'Knowledge'/ ie meta-knowledge or your personal ideas about epiphanies within human jelloware either - for all root reasons) Finally, one needn't call-self an 'atheist' or join a mob of such - to notice that you don't even see your fav metaphor as being entirely about the large Concepts of 'duality \| unity'! .. as you ramble-off to focus upon a mere handful of the infinite consequences of ever exploring this Idea-fork. Must be that ol' Debbil's M$-grade digitalscholarship you're building-on. None So Blind.. Indeed!
Post #217,900 by warmachine 8/6/05 10:37:29 PM Reply	Intellect without capacity for evil? So, you contend that adam and eve had the intellect, reasoning and self awareness of adults yet were incapable of evil thoughts, as well as not knowing any. They would be incapable of wanting to fulfil sexual desire when the other doesn't want to, rather than choosing not to. Neither could invent the evil of rape. The free will to choose between good and evil yet incapable of inventing evil. An ideal yet to be described by any philospher or storyteller and certainly not me. The worker's paradise of Marxism required enforcement and propaganda. Even in the fake, programmed utopia of Brave New World, Bernard invents evil by discrediting the Director of Hatcheries. Forgive me when I say intellect without capacity for evil is a daft idea. Besides, if it was that important that mankind not know evil, why wasn't the tree better hidden or guarded? Sooner or later, someone curious will try it. Sounds like entrapment to me. Or was the retrofitted suffering and pulling legs of serpents a necessary part of creating free will? Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #217,914 by boxley 8/7/05 12:20:16 AM Reply	I have met intellect without the capacity for evil in many people, Im saddened that your life has been such that you have not. Now I have also met some truly evil folks, it also seemed in some way that those folks were mentally crippled. I am convinced that capacity for true evil diminishes intellect. Most of us are a combination of both. thanx, bill Just call me Mr. Lynch \\ Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #217,935 by warmachine 8/7/05 5:32:22 AM Reply	Capacity or choice Are you sure you're not confusing capacity with choice? From the assertion that truly evil people are mentally crippled, it does not follow the capacity for true evil is crippling. Someone can have the capacity to be truly evil but choose not to be truly evil. Considering a lot of murders are committed by loved ones, I'd say the difference between capacity and choice is large. Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #218,027 by Ashton 8/7/05 7:55:40 PM Reply	Hey, warfarin - sometimes 'logic' Is enough! [short form] Yup - capacity VS choice. [funner form] Jung was the most metaphysically ept of those legions endlessly yammerin about 'analyzin' a machine which is beyond-itself recursively Unanalyzable. (Not that That stops any Univ from starting a Department, mind you/us) Jung had a pretty good comprehension of Eastern scholarship through the ages.. Damn-good it seems, for any Western simplistic-inculcated drudge. Those engrams, memes, archetypes -by anyothername- appear to be as essential to daily homo-sap machine-ops as is the h\ufffdmoglobin; anyone who claims to have 'eliminated' that er root-nature? might as well start a late-night Tee Vee Show and get paid for bloviating. 'Conquer' is about second-by-second Choice, then. Oh and - Ditto in Spades re all the BS everywhere, about the "character (!!), feelings, loving, hating, cajoling, Gender (!?!) and whispering-to-Moi" yada of the [Absolute] is blowing smoke at supersonic velocities. The [Absolute] is a concept fucking Defined as Without. Attributes. ..meaning: 'Defined' in Sanskrit itself! (the Only language extant designed-for; 'premeditatedly'-designed for - attempting some useful communication about metaphysical ideas, among the few who ever pay much genuine Attention to such arcanery. ie Even re the unsustainable propositions: one needs to learn, eventually.. Why one Is 'unsustainable', if a chirpy Grasshopper is ever to grow-Upwards and not just bloat sideways, with more fatty cant.) Still, most Will prefer George Burns anyway.. suck it up I Who Be
Post #217,919 by Another Scott 8/7/05 12:44:03 AM Reply	My $0.02 on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. (new thread) Created as new thread #217918 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=217918\|My $0.02 on the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.]

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