Post #20,881
12/10/01 7:17:12 AM
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2 questions: Games for kids; development for kids.
First, it's That Time Of The Year again...
And I have a bunch of nephews (OK, and nieces -- but it's the boys who are PC fiends, really). And, perhaps the toughest customer of them all: Anki's boy, Mathias. Actually, my nieces and nephews read, so they'll proably get books... But Mathias isn't all that much of an avid reader (I'll check if Pratchett's _Diggers_ series is available in Finnish; turn the boy onto good authors while I'm at it), so I was thinking perhaps a PC game. He has a lot of sports (ice hockey, football ("soccer" to you Merks), street racing etc) games, so I thought something more contemplative for a change...
But my own experience of games is limited. Only -- I notice Civilization III is out, and I used to like the first one (in black and white, on a Mac, ten years ago). Would that fit an eleven-year-old? Also, he gets a lot of (pirated) games from his Dad -- is it stupid to buy and pay for Civ3; is that something that is likely to be available in pirating circles within a month or so?
Second, my friend Seppo here at work (who BTW claimed, over lunch today, that Clarke wasn't first with the idea of a Beanstalk -- anybody know anything about that?) mentioned that he was wondering if there are any "Development tools" for kids around -- anybody know any? I was thinking Logo and stuff goes back all the way to the seventies; is anything like that still around and available? Or perhaps "Demo" building stuff, from the gaming world? Could be just something graphical, point-and-click and define *some* degree of interactivity; doesn't have to (or shouldn't) be a real programming language at all.
(Heck, maybe the laser-refraction thingy inThane found qualifies -- I'll point him to that, to begin with! :-)
Any suggestions gratefully accepted.
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
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Post #20,885
12/10/01 10:08:24 AM
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For programming/interactivity...
What about [link|http://mindstorms.lego.com/|LEGO Mindstorms]? IIRC, Malraux's said some good things about it. That provides both away-from-computer building as well as the hacker-type of stuff required to get the stuff he creates to do what he wants it to do.
-YendorMike
"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by the skeptics or the cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need people who dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
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Post #20,911
12/10/01 1:03:05 PM
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Civ III
Well, actually it's already out in the pirate circles.
Not that I actually have seen it, just that generally any game is in the pirate circles anywhere from 3 weeks prior to release to about a week after release. Still no reason to excuse not buying a damn copy - Sid Meier needs the money so he can make his next version.
Games:
The problem is, we're kind of in a dead spot as far as games go. Civ 3 rocks, from what I've heard (but needs massive patches, especially a certain corruption issue - not data corruption, but a game mechanic referred to as "corruption"...) but does not include multiplayer. I've heard really good things about "Return to Castle Wolfenstein," especially for multiplayer, but you HAVE to buy a legitimate copy of the game to play multiplayer, as it is authenticated centrally with a server via a unique ID key.
Neverwinter Nights, the next Big Thing IMO is now in Legal Limbo - Bioware told Interplay to take that chainsaw dildo and use it, at least until Interplay can cough up the money that they owe Bioware, in addition to not reselling Bioware's products in other countries without Bioware's permission. The problem is that Interplay owns the license that Neverwinter Nights is going to be released under, so if Interplay decides to throw a tantrum, the game may never come out. And not much else is grabbing my interest right now, so you might have a hard time finding a Quality game...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #20,912
12/10/01 1:05:14 PM
12/10/01 1:08:59 PM
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Beanstalk
Yuri Artsutanov wrote an article in 1960. I don't remember the first SF beanstalk story; it would not surprise me too much to learn that there might be a relatively obscure SF story predating that, though. I was half-thinking Clarke had written a short story about them which predated Fountains of Paradise (1979), but none of the story titles I've seen rings a bell.
Civilization III is, from the reports, an incrimental improvement over Civilization II. Me, I like the Alpha Centauri building/development game, or Heroes of Might and Magic. Simple gameplay, but addictive and full of strategy.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
Edited by wharris2
Dec. 10, 2001, 01:08:59 PM EST
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Post #20,921
12/10/01 2:14:08 PM
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Simple.
Counter-Strike and Quake III Arena.
The first teaches, in a manner not dissimilar to Barney The Dinosaur, that you can achieve anything if you work together.
The second teaches reactions that will make Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan seem like they're slower than a lake of molasses in January in Montana.
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #20,941
12/10/01 4:41:14 PM
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Why pirate?
When [link|http://www.freeciv.org|FreeCiv] is available for free?
I hope that Civ III isn't as bad as Alpha Centauri. Civ II was a real good game and I bought it. Now Civ II can be bought for under $10USD.
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Post #20,943
12/10/01 5:12:52 PM
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SMAC bad?!?
Damn, I LOVE that game! It's a little difficult to figure out at first, but once you get your head around it, it's one Hell of a game, with some really neat ideas...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post #20,945
12/10/01 5:30:01 PM
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Re: SMAC bad?!?
Seconded.
It has a huge flaw though.
You can't put the sodding thing down till you've finished it.
Even the cheesy story is oddly enthralling.
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #21,011
12/11/01 12:34:01 PM
12/11/01 12:38:55 PM
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Re: SMAC bad?!?
I finally had to delete it from my computer, it got so bad. Me playing it, that is, not the game itself.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
Edited by wharris2
Dec. 11, 2001, 12:38:55 PM EST
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Post #20,982
12/11/01 2:42:19 AM
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Wff n'Proof?
Not exactly computer-related, though by now maybe it's been (trans)ported (?)
WFF = Well Formed Formulae
Proof = er 'proof'
Saw this decades ago when a Sociology Prof, Rennaissance kinda guy played these ~ games with his kids. I deemed it not just about logic.. maybe so far as the rudiments of reasoning? (This presumes that a one or two of the tykes might be interested in that direction.)
Dunno about Finnish either, but recall it was made in other languages than Engrish.
I am told recently - that the restricted body-movement, and especially solid-focussed eye-movement of prolonged CRT screen staring, is beginning to manifest in rather odd spinal ailments. Being noticed esp. in kids, but too early to have an Org. formed (or new disease named). I've asked for a few refs.
FWIW.
Ashton
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Post #21,641
12/16/01 5:13:33 PM
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MAME, always a classic?
Consider getting [link|http://www.mame.net|MAME] and then visiting that [link|http://www.mame.dk|ROM site] before it gets shut down or buy a disk full of arcade ROMs.
Have your children learn the games you used to play as a youth without them spending a pocket full of quarters (or whatever coins your area takes, tokens?) to learn from the games.
The Neo*Geo games are about the best, and any made after 1997 have those 3D graphics that only a Pentium II/Celeron or AMD Althon/Duron or faster can handle. Just be aware that some games have a lot of violence in them (as if that ever stopped any other kid from playing it?) and a few of them are adult related.
But pile up on the ROMs if you can. MAME exists for Windows, OS/2, Linux, BeOS, MacOS, MacOSX, FreeBSD/NetBSD, AmigaDOS/AmigaOS, and many other platforms.
Even Pacman can teach hand/eye co-ordination and maze navigation. :)
"Oy! Seats taken mate!" - "Brilliant!" on BBC America
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