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New Doesn't need to be that hard and its not just MS
"The actual hurdle for handling signed emails et al is that J Random User has to learn the rudimentaries of it."

Disagree. Its much worse than that.

For instance, in order to get certs into my mail client I had to go here: [link|http://www.sente.ch/software/GPGMail/English.lproj/GPGMail.html|http://www.sente.ch/...proj/GPGMail.html]

And then get this: [link|http://www.gnupg.org/|http://www.gnupg.org/]

And follow this arcane little guide: [link|http://webber.dewinter.com/gnupg_howto/english/GPGMiniHowto.html|http://webber.dewint...GPGMiniHowto.html]

Overall, to get signed email working I spent about 3 hours downloading and following instructions. I am experienced at installing all sorts of software and I found it daunting.

How is Joe AOL going to deal with this?



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New That's my point.
Although what I technically meant by the line you quoted was said in the light of my experience in managing coporate encryption services. If you deal with keys, you have to understand the basics (the idea of a Key Encrypting Key is bizarre to a lot of people, for instance). Otherwise it won't make sense and you'll do it wrong.

The proliferation of programs to do all the bits is the part where someone like Microsoft could help. Unless the majority of other email client makers get together and do it.

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New Don't need GNUPG for that on Winders
Outlook and TBird support the Windows certs just fine, and they're somewhat less arduous.

Quel surprise, however, that on OS X the GNUPG plugin for Mail and GPG Keychain Access applications make being a GPG user as easy as falling off a log.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Then why do you think more people don't do it then?
I think it's because there is still a learning hurdle.

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

New Well, yes.
90% of users don't even know that they CAN encrypt their mail.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Oh, I know that I can...
I just don't know that most of the people I send email to would be able to figure out how to read it.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New You're *so* not in the 90%
:-)


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New That was part of my point
Even those that can, have incentives not to bother.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New I'm not so sure...

I've gotten GPG-encrypted mail from you that had issues.

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
New That was an S/MIME issue...
...and we need to revisit it. I need to know if it's just you or if I have a problem. Other people have communicated with me encryptowise without difficulty.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Re: That was an S/MIME issue...

Every other PGP/GPG-encrypted message I've ever received marked the encrypted portion with the content-type 'application/pgp-encrypted', and the signature 'application/pgp-signature'.

\r\n\r\n

Yours appears to have done neither. Perhaps some clients sniff for the 'BEGIN PGP MESSAGE' line, and Evolution doesn't?

\r\n\r\n

Saving the message and decrypting on the command line worked OK.

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
Expand Edited by ubernostrum April 13, 2005, 01:50:58 AM EDT
New Fixx0r3d, and a note for Mail/GPG users on OS X
The GPG plugin thing for Mail has a preference panel with an option to always use OpenPGP/MIME.

Enabling this resolved the problem.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Recently, GNOME has made great strides in that.
Gnome has the little app called seahorse.

It is a central point for all of your keys. Evo supports it out of the box. Evo 2.2.1.1 (which I run now) even has support for managing cert as well for things like signed keys and so on.

I dunno, I would have to say that if someone can just walk people through it, easily...

Well, we wouldn't have to be in this siutation.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
New Yes and we have the keychain on OS X
but getting the key's generated and registered - that's still ugly.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
     Fake MS security updates circulate - (tuberculosis) - (16)
         I think you have the right idea - (tjsinclair)
         Security is Hard. - (static) - (14)
             Doesn't need to be that hard and its not just MS - (tuberculosis) - (13)
                 That's my point. - (static)
                 Don't need GNUPG for that on Winders - (pwhysall) - (9)
                     Then why do you think more people don't do it then? - (static) - (4)
                         Well, yes. - (pwhysall) - (3)
                             Oh, I know that I can... - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                 You're *so* not in the 90% - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                     That was part of my point - (ben_tilly)
                     I'm not so sure... - (ubernostrum) - (3)
                         That was an S/MIME issue... - (pwhysall) - (2)
                             Re: That was an S/MIME issue... - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                                 Fixx0r3d, and a note for Mail/GPG users on OS X - (pwhysall)
                 Recently, GNOME has made great strides in that. - (folkert) - (1)
                     Yes and we have the keychain on OS X - (tuberculosis)

Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!
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