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New Particle Physics is overrated
Many particle physicists seem to believe that all science flows from physics, and all physics from particle physics, hence they are the high priests of science. And as the high priests of science, if you want progress in science you need to fund multi-million (these days multi-billion) dollar experiments so that they can hit the next threshold and write papers only they can read, and get tenure.

This view of life is very clean, pure, austere, and convenient if you are a particle physicist.

My view is rather difference. Science is a human endeavour founded in basic curiousity and analysis of, "How does that work?" There is more science in someone wondering at the way a plate of food wobbles around on the ground than in yet another piece of mental masturbation on superstring theory.

I am dead serious on that rather unfair example. There is simply no comparison. Lest people miss the reference, what got Feynman out of period where he wasn't doing any physics was exactly the plate problem, after seeing an accident in a cafeteria. The answers he got to that problem later on applied to the piece of research that earned him a Nobel. Staring at a wobbling plate lead to a Nobel in physics. When was the last superstring paper that did likewise?

In my view any subject matter that has gotten away from the fundamental elements of intellectual play, observing the world, and that fundamental sense of, "Wow! Things really work that way! Neato!" has lost contact with the center of science. The deepness or importance of the problems matter squat. It is the characteristics of the pursuit that mark a science.

Particle physics hit that wall long ago. It now costs billions of dollars even to ask the next question, let alone to test the stuff the theoreticians like to pontificate on. The money is justified on the basis of the fact that they are deep, important problems. We are discussing the Nature Of The Universe. We are discussing things which literally have Cosmic Import since we are learning about the Big Bang.

Other areas of science don't have that trouble. They have not pushed their fields so far. There are much more approachable problems. Experiments cost less, a lot less. They can actually answer interesting questions, and the answers lead to other answerable questions. Some of the answers turn out to be useful (ie make money). Which ones? Hard to predict. Useful stuff comes from all over.

But governments historically have listened to particle physicists. After all they built the bomb. What will their next miracle be? In the meantime solid state physics has a claim to the bomb which pretty good. They also have claims to transistors, atomic clocks, lasers...

Now they are challenging the particle physicists claim to be discussing the deepest and most significant problems in the universe. Well good. It would be nice to see particle physicists knocked off of their pedestal.

But my view is that there are a lot of different kinds of science out there. Lots of them are pretty fun to learn about. And IMHO particle physics happens to be near the bottom of the list of ones I care about seeing supported...

Cheers,
Ben
New Watch It! Ben..
As one who has spent ~ a half-life in and around cute accelerators of all sizes, chatted with a few Giants and lots of elves, seen Feynman lecture, watched RA Millikan-emeritus wandering about the campus ...

Seeing your screed striking at the very roots! of all those fun toys, Tektonix oscilloscopes and pSec pulse generators (now fSec..) causes me to wonder at -










Our sanity! That is - pretty much agree; reading a super-string paper is reminiscent of a Lacan paper or often, a M$ hourly Press-Release. Too. And it *IS* mental masturbation: the math is unmappable to anything the brain might conceptualize ('cept for you math types with disarrayed chromosomes and +/-/maybe circuits in wetware).

Besides - via 1st-degree hearsay from a cohort still at one o' those National Lab thingies: that place now sports more Intel, IBM "groups" (tryin for that 10 nM Big Semiconductor Succe$$ on govmint infrastructure, natch) than group names like Segr\ufffd, Alvarez et al. These Corps now have their 'own' synchrotron light source for playing mask games..

Fat lot that has to do with Basic Research\ufffd. So whether or not nuclear physics is the seminal fountainhead for all Good Thought [??] - for being so 'basic': apparently the Billy n'Bally virus has spread bizness "ethics" all the way through to the seducation of the NLs (at least my old one) --> $^%&#* $$-production.. never mind Boson production.

So I agree, kill 'em off. Even if they aren't hurting anybody in their dalliances. Except by retarding funding of [_?_] (A fuck of a lot more than can be said for) -

That which I imagine I see also: the second-edge of that two-edged sword that masquerades under the rubric, information technology - and deem *that* perhaps the most palpably bizness-corruptible of all the rubrics extant - but it's likely too late to back out of this nascent dystopia.

Too many entrenched Billionaires/Corps are already doing the selecting of priorities (presidents are EZ). Add rampant overpopulation and antediluvian opposition to even birth control = we may as well masturbate with Information Theory\ufffd for enough decades to refine the grazing of the less and less effective sheep.

Some of us will be dead before that vision (or is it a sight?) achieves final robotization. You can hear the precursors though: ever notice how 'workers' are being trained to deliver their spiels in more and more machinelike cadences? Airport announcements and employee responses? Your own employer training desk folk?

So will grabbing the physics funds save us from Orwell?
I really don't know.. but think maybe just throwing the funds in the Marianas Trench? would beat funding "The Information Age". It's such a conceptual crock - it makes physics genuinely scintillating in its brilliance..



Ashton
But I come here to bury C\ufffdsar, not to praise him.
New Re: Particle Physics is overrated
Physics should be more a matter of "why did X happen when I did Y" rather than "I speculate that mumble particles will appear when I strike gargle object with oogle force."

Screw the tinted quark (or whatever the latest deeply sub-molecular particle appears to be, until it's disproven by the charmed superstring next month.) Physicists have gotten themselves lost in a land of speculation. These solid-state dudes seem to have taken on a more hands-on approach, which I applaud.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
     Particle Physicists to be knocked off the mountain top? - (Another Scott) - (4)
         Particle physics way superior to solid-state in the most - (Ashton)
         Particle Physics is overrated - (ben_tilly) - (2)
             Watch It! Ben.. - (Ashton)
             Re: Particle Physics is overrated - (wharris2)

Diane's as fat can be... aye, Captain aye!
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