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New Well, I got Whine. or You knew this was coming.
1. Filtered messages cannot be moved. Hit Find, enter some terms, click Find Now, see the list of messages. Now try to drag those messages into the folder you just made for them. Can't. Try to drag just one. Can't. Realise that you have 500 messages in the list you just created with your filter and that the next 30 minutes is going to be really, really boring.
GroupWise's INBOX *IS* a search folder. You can delete it if you want. You can recreate it, rename it... and move messages in or out of it.
2. If a rule sets a message's status to "read", the new mail notifier in the system tray isn't removed. I have a number of rules that manipulate the read/unread status of messages; return receipts and spam are both set to "read" when they are received, for example. The envelope remains. I think I've got new mail. I haven't.
GroupWise has a VERY... VERY... VERY good Rules setup and it updates the trayicon too if the rules mark a message auto-read.
3. Outlook is really, really slow. I get and send a lot of mail; archive folders with upwards of 3000 messages in are not unusual. Moving and/or deleting large numbers of messages in folders, be they on the Exchange server or in my local archive, is always painful.
Hmmm. Groupwise in the 5.x and before version had a "bug" that was originally a limit, then became a display bug. If you have more than 6472 messages in any folder it would only show 6472 of em... and which 6472 was upto it. Although, you could move, change, delete those visible messages at any time... without waiting. Even the WHOLE thing upto a max of 6472 at a time. I have recently asked and found out that GW 6.5 *IS* able to display the full folder now... and it is exceptionally easy to manage LARGE archives.
4. The new mail indicator is useless. Double-clicking this opens Outlook, but it doesn't do what you want it to do, which is to take you to the new mail. Even just putting you in the right folder would be a start. Highlighting the message in question would be better.
Double clicking on the tray icon will bring up outlook or bring an existing session already open to the Foreground... and if you read everything... it will update within a coupla seconds
5. Viewing message headers is nigh-on impossible. Well, that's not entirely true. One can see the internet headers of an RFC822 message by visiting the View->Options menu item that's only available when you have the message open in its own window. Viewing the source of an HTML message appears to be flat-out impossible.
GW has been able to do that for ad long as I know. You just change to the tab that has it in the message area. Also, you can see the e-mail source as well... in a similar fashion to viewing the headers in Lookout.
6. The calendar and PIM tools are pretty decent. This only serves to throw into stark contrast just how crappy the messaging components are.
I beg to differ, Resources and appointments, and foreign appointment and soo on all work very well with groupWise. Most PIM managers now work natively with Groupwise.
7. You can't turn off remote image loading, so inadvertently viewing messages containing tracking images is unavoidable. Scripting is disabled, though. Woo.
Images are optional in GW. You can control in e-mail wether to load or not. Never does activeX thingers *UNLESS* you double click on them.
8. Outlook doesn't show unread message counts in the tree for Exchange Server public folders. Well, sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. Do you feel lucky?
GroupWise has numerous ways to share messages... proxy, public, private shared, public shared, restricted, read-only read-write. Oh and Document Publishing is PART of the package, providing you (the admin) set it up. Has 9999 version revison control of said docs, diffs are sorta there (I haven't seen it recently to knwo if they are better or not)
9. Outlook uses "Sent Items" for sent messages, versus the universally applied "Sent" elsewhere. If you're someone who switches between an IMAP client and Outlook, it's an extra configuration step on the other client.
GroupWise has foreign e-mail support for POP3, IMAP3/4, even other email systems (at additional cost I think) for exchange with a foreign PO link or client <-> exchange access, Lotus Notes and another one I can't remember.
10. The Web toolbar is completely useless and is currently absorbing developer resources (these things do not maintain and document themselves) that should be focussed on making Outlook not be completely rubbish for email.
Nothing to really compare to in GroupWise.


--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
New And all this helps me how?
Oh, that's right, it doesn't :-)

Also, on a number of points, you appear to me responding to something other than what I wrote; specifically: 1, 6, 8 and 9.

"Branch your MUA advocacy threads, please" <-- Did you miss this?


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New I wasn't advocating.
Just giving you examples of how GW did it's thing.

Sorry, if you can't use something that works.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
New I can not *wait* to see you two at BeepBash
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Yeah, you were :-)
<pw> I have to use outlook, and here's why I hate it.
<gf> Here's a long post about a product you cannot use.

That's advocacy, Greg :-)


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New No I wasn't.
I was trying to get you to finally admit something.

Also, trying to make you more frustrated/jealous.

I guess, I failed in both areas.

But, advocacy... no. You will *KNOW* when I advocate something.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
New Admit what?
That the Groupwise client doesn't ming? Won't happen, because it does :-)

GW at the server end is all fluffy bunnies and clouds and children frolicking in the meadows, I don't doubt; however, I'm in the fortunate position these days that I couldn't care less about how much pain the server causes the IT department :-D[0]

Also, when someone is discussing $THING_X and you tell them that $THING_Y is better, then you are advocating $THING_Y.

I'm also really disinterested in whether or not Groupwise is actually better here, because this is a specific whine about a specific app that I have to use; replacing it is absolutely not an option.[1]
[0] Even if Exchange steals their women, keys their cars and drinks their beer, I couldn't give a monkey's.
[1] I've tried this (assorted IMAP clients; see my other whinges for why IMAP support sucks in just about everything other than Evolution), but when all your colleagues are using the Exchange-specific functions, then you find yourself running two clients (one for email, one for calendaring) and that just sucks. It's actually less pain (sort of) to run the one client and put up with the fact that it is, in fact, the world's worst MUA.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Thanks. You just did.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey

[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"]
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
     Outlook Annoyances - (pwhysall) - (22)
         Echo every word - (bepatient)
         Header & HTML help - (SpiceWare) - (1)
             I have and use SpamBayes. -NT - (pwhysall)
         Re: Outlook Annoyances - (inthane-chan) - (5)
             Outlook Search Solution - (pwhysall) - (4)
                 Does it search .PDFs yet? :-( -NT - (Another Scott) - (3)
                     No. >:( - (pwhysall) - (2)
                         Google Desktop Search is no longer beta. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             it does! - (pwhysall)
         5. Headers. Right-click the msg and choose 'Options' - (FuManChu) - (1)
             <nelson>haw-haw!</nelson> -NT - (inthane-chan)
         ICLRPD -- oops, forgot to redirect - (drewk) - (1)
             ICLRPD (new thread) - (drewk)
         1, 4, 7, 10: 2003 - (altmann)
         Well, I got Whine. or You knew this was coming. - (folkert) - (7)
             And all this helps me how? - (pwhysall) - (6)
                 I wasn't advocating. - (folkert) - (5)
                     I can not *wait* to see you two at BeepBash -NT - (drewk)
                     Yeah, you were :-) - (pwhysall) - (3)
                         No I wasn't. - (folkert) - (2)
                             Admit what? - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                 Thanks. You just did. -NT - (folkert)

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