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New Then let me elaborate
Again thanx for your interest, your long elaborate replies are always sincere and humbling!
I am kinda shy to expose stuff that might be personal and not very interesting for others to hear, but again, maybe this will help me ...
I have to say a lil about my history to justify my choices, my degree is MIS, during the last year, it became clear to me, I AM A DONKEY, after 3 years in business school, and 2 years in engineering, I am going to graduate late and graduate without a skill!
Being skillful is very important to me, I don't want to do work that require no skill.
The net became my saviour, I surfed to learn, who is doing what, why, what is the best tool, what is systems analysis and design, what is a programming language, what does terminology x mean, how important it is to learn terminology x, etc ...
Of course nowadays we are living the dream, the net have all the answers and all the tool I need and they are free, I am saved, all I need it to take advantage of what is there and learn, and I can give back!
You know, I told you before, that I know you from your posts on perlmonks! your post on programming paradigms was enlightening to me.
There are many way to do programming, and to be good and skillful you should learn them all.
No excuse!
The best way to learn a paradigm is to learn a language that implements this paradigm.
I learn a little about a lot, I am extremely generalist, and I get bored really really fast, I get more excited over learning a solution, understand it, thinking about it than building it!
So did this lead me to Tcl?
Well, Tcl is easy to learn, so before I get bored, I would have probably learned enough to build something interesting!
There is many interesting extension for it, and many very interesting tools that uses it, OpenACS, SqlLite, AOL Server.
Tcl have many deployment facilities, starkits.
Tcl is fun, and thats key.
Some languages are good, others are fun.
Java is good, Java is widely used commercially, many frameworks built with it, a major corporation behind, improved constantly ...
You can't go wrong with Java
But Java is boooooooooooooooooooring
You have to learn a lot before you just can see anything!
I started with Java, read the first few chapters in learning Java in 21 days
And honestly, Java sucks ass!
Java is just not intelectually rewarding at all
So I moved to Python, the interactive interpreter was a blast!
Wow..
But after a lot of time with python, I realized that python was as dull as java better of course, less dull wouldn't disagree.
But still, it was just not intelectually rewarding!

So I had to move on, OCaml, programming for the smarties!
Spent many nights, trying to read the french book, on programming with OCaml!
Many new terminology, many new concepts, I still have no clue or real understanding of many of it's features, but I do believe OCaml is great and fun, and intelectual!

I also spent a lot of time with C, you know regardless of what you think, C is fun, it was fun to understand how to dynamically allocate memory for a mutlidimension array, tryin to visuallize it and rationalized, this was fun!

Then came the time, I just have to see more, investigate ways.
It was time for GUI and event based programming, I first looked at GTK, but that's where the C fun stopped, and Tcl seemed where I should go!

I still have not learned the Tk extension, but as far as I am concerned, it will be fun, and intlectually rewarding!

Plus Tcl is fun, the idea that everything is a string, is super fun to think about it, my intel processor is a machine, that think everything is a binary number, my Tcl program is a machine that think everything is a string!

Could this be another way to look at polymorphism?
Yea, I think so, maybe I am wrong
But I get to think about it, and it's fun!

Lisp should be fun, I learned a lil elisp, and well, being able to imagine how the intepreter is executing/substituting your program every step of way is fun and rewarding!

I wonna have skill, and I want to know it all, but I walking alone here, if my mind is not going to entertain me, well, I just wouldn't last!

It must be usefull and fun, I cannot afford to pick a commercial choice, if I want to last!
Plus, this will in a way go against my principal, my savior the net, the free software, all the free papers, all the forums, all the chat room!
If it wasn't for the free software, I would have never gone after programming sysadmin skills, not that I have them yet, but this is where I chose to go!

So, do I want a future in a big commercial firm! I am not rich by western standard, but thank God I am also not poor!
So I do not know, I don't think I will ever qualify for work in such a place, but I see a future in small teams, building solutions using free software!

I expect to be paid for the solution! not the tools used in building the solution!
I do not expect the user care for the tool as much as the solution!

So, this is how I think!
I want to develop the skills to build the solution!
Without strong moral principals, and tools that are fun and intelctual, I won't last! I will quit!

Sorry for the personal stuff, I don't think I am dumb or bad, I am just slow!
New "Systems", you should meet Bryce. Bryce, this is "Systems".
New BTW, "Systems": Lay off the exclamation marks. Have some ...
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HTH!


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New You sound like the Rincewind of programming
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
     Tilting at windmills: classes vs objects - (drewk) - (35)
         Er, no. - (admin) - (14)
             Well ... - (drewk) - (11)
                 They're wrong. - (admin) - (9)
                     I'd say parallel development - (drewk) - (5)
                         I dispute that claim - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                             Exactly. - (mmoffitt)
                         History of PHP in question - (tablizer) - (2)
                             PHP started as less then a scripting language - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                                 Them 'er fightin' words - (tablizer)
                     I think PHP's upgrades are just practical. - (static) - (2)
                         By "class variables" you mean "static" class variables? -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                             Er, yes. - (static)
                 What to say if someone says that... - (ben_tilly)
             Nit - (dshellman) - (1)
                 Actually, that's not a nit - (admin)
         a class is a type of object - (daemon) - (2)
             It's tables all the way down. :-) - (ChrisR) - (1)
                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (Steve Lowe)
         Very astute observation - (tuberculosis)
         Re: Tilting at windmills: classes vs objects - (systems) - (15)
             I suspected that programming would eventually converge - (Ashton)
             Do you honestly believe that this is from TCL??? - (ben_tilly) - (13)
                 Amen - (broomberg)
                 Re: Do you honestly believe that this is from TCL??? - (systems) - (11)
                     think you had better be a developer - (daemon) - (3)
                         Funny; I was thinking the opposite ;) -NT - (FuManChu) - (2)
                             Ive met lots of developers that have no clue - (daemon)
                             Neither - (broomberg)
                     Let me get this straight - (ben_tilly) - (5)
                         very loud VD (clap clap clap) -NT - (daemon)
                         Then let me elaborate - (systems) - (3)
                             "Systems", you should meet Bryce. Bryce, this is "Systems". -NT - (CRConrad)
                             BTW, "Systems": Lay off the exclamation marks. Have some ... - (CRConrad)
                             You sound like the Rincewind of programming -NT - (ben_tilly)
                     For scripting, TCL is poo. -NT - (pwhysall)

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