s/Tomcat/Jetty/

Post #192,488 by tuberculosis 2/1/05 12:23:31 PM Reply	s/Tomcat/Jetty/ Tomcat is a dog. Jetty is a lot like Tomcat only better performing and a bit simpler to setup I think. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #192,496 by admin 2/1/05 12:55:12 PM Reply	Based on what? Here's the only benchmark comparison I've been able to find so far. The methodology is somewhat suspect, however, but useful if you understand what they did. [link\|http://www.webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletReport/\|http://www.webperfor...ry/ServletReport/] Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #192,506 by tuberculosis 2/1/05 1:32:10 PM Reply	Personal experience TC gave me frequent failed connections when used as servlet container in JBoss a couple years back. Replacing with Jetty drop in replacement resulted in much improved performance. Its all subjective - I did no measurements other than observe that my app sucked way less under Jetty than Tomdog "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #192,530 by admin 2/1/05 4:49:46 PM Reply	A couple of years back, sure. Tomcat 5 is a lot faster. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #192,531 by tuberculosis 2/1/05 4:57:38 PM Reply	Oh Tomcat 5 Oh very nice. I freely admit that I don't know anything about it. My experience was with version 4.somethingorother. Ground up rewrite was it? There's so much endless crotch fondling in J-land that I can't really keep up with the latest wave of [link\|http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=86833\|stuff they just figured out] that everybody else has [link\|http://www.cmcrossroads.com/\|known] for years (one little representative example). Its nice to hear that at least some of the churn has a forward vector component. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #192,563 by FuManChu 2/1/05 11:18:51 PM Reply	Reminds me of Spolsky's piece on Netscape [link\|http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html\|http://www.joelonsof...og0000000069.html]
Post #192,577 by ben_tilly 2/2/05 1:45:57 AM Reply	And I remember disagreeing with it the first time My opinions then: [link\|http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=115724\|http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=115724] My opinions haven't been updated since then other than to point out that now even Joel considers Mozilla a success. Furthermore he doesn't respond to the fact that the Netscape 4 code, after having proprietary bits ripped out so that they could open source, didn't run! The decision to rewrite came after looking at rewriting from scratch vs having to do a lot of work to get working code, followed by having to solve all of the problems in that code base. Another grumpy opinion from me. Refactoring is great. By all means do it. But living in the middle of a code mess that someone is trying to refactor is kind of like living in a house that's under constant renovation. You're not sure which tap has hot water this week, and you're really praying that the showers aren't hooked up to the sewage system. (I know someone that this actually happened to!) Refactoring is a tool. It is not a pancea. And it is not always the right tool. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #192,603 by Another Scott 2/2/05 7:55:37 AM Reply	Makes sense to me. I was going to post a quip like, "Yeah, FireFox shows how bad a decision it was to throw out the Netscape code." You made the case much better. Sometimes you really do need to start over. It may be true that it's done far too often, but sometimes it is the appropriate choice. Joel often rubs me the wrong way. I've only read ~ half a dozen of his posts, but his I-used-to-work-at-Microsoft-so-I-know-how-to-write-software / apply-for-a-job / whatever-better-than-you attitude grates sometimes. People who make decisions he looks back on in hind-sight and disagrees with aren't all idiots. Borland and Netscape were done in more by MS's anticompetitive actions than by coding decisions... My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #192,640 by tuberculosis 2/2/05 12:05:04 PM Reply	Know what you mean its a pity he couldn't take his own advice on UI design while working at Microsoft. He was just here to give a talk. I didn't sit through it but I popped in for a few minutes to get the gist of what he was on about. 90 seconds into it I just thought "well, duh" and walked out. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #192,643 by ChrisR 2/2/05 12:22:46 PM Reply	It's a threshold thing From a commercial standpoint, a total rewrite of Netscape would have bankrupted any company that did such a thing. I'm glad that Mozilla rewrote the browser from the ground up, as it is a much better offering as a result. But the time involved also saw Netscape's market share fall off the end of the world. This is a case of Open Source keeping something alive where the shrink wrap world could not have possibly survived. The bigger problem is not that you should never rewrite like Joel says, but when is it technically and economically justified. The threshold for rewriting from scratch needs to be set high simply because a lot of developers lapse into the mindset that it will cure all the ills in one fell swoop.
Post #192,741 by ben_tilly 2/2/05 8:58:01 PM Reply	And that point is completely true Complete rewrites are much more affordable when you don't have to care about details such as market share. It does leave you with a lot of work and no shipable product while competitors are producing improvements. There are no easy solutions to that. Just think of how long the road was for Microsoft to replace Windows 3.1 with Windows NT. (I think we all know that Windows 95 was not, despite many claims otherwise, actually a complete rewrite...) And I think that they handled it pretty well. As an ironic example of not doing it so well, I'd like to point at Microsoft's current problems with Internet Explorer 6.0... Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

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