IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New I think you've got it
Would I be way off base to say that model/view/controller maps roughly to object/jsp/servlet?

No, that's about the right division of responsibilities.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Would be nice to say that in the docs
Sun has a ton of great docs about MVC and other programming theory. They've also got a ton of very explict language documentation. What they don't have is anything that says, "And here is how you use this language to execute this theory."
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New That's missing for most languages
Which is why Scott Meyer's Effective C++ books were so good. They were the first and best to answer just that question.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Like Drew, I'm trying to teach myself Java.
Your post just cost me \ufffd7; I picked up a copy of Bloch's "Effective Java".


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New "Effective Java" => oxymoron :-)
New "Microsoft Works"
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New What would he know about it?
He wrote the collections library.

Its not a particularly good collections library.

Several of us Smalltalk guys tried to point that out to him when he introduced it at JavaOne many years ago (like 1998 I think).

He didn't want to hear it.




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New That's an oddly visceral response.
I'm not sure I buy the idea that because he wrote a library that some people don't like, everything he possibly has to say on the subject of Java is null and void.

Anyway, wossisface Gosling who invented Java seems to like it, right enough.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Symptomatic of general J-headed attitude
Please, lets not learn anything from anybody else. This is all so wonderfully new and shiny and we made it all up by ourselves with our eyes closed and nobody could possibly know more than we do even though we're getting it wrong pretty often and we've set general programming back 10 years with all of our shite.

"Anyway, wossisface Gosling who invented Java seems to like it, right enough."

case rest.

I went to a talk yesterday - some wanker going on and on about AsspectJ and how it simplifies this and adds that and isn't it all magic its the new OO going to be the wave of the future. Nevermind that it doesn't work with dynamic invocation (via reflection) or that it suddenly confounds all the debuggers that we just got working reliably after years and years of printout based debugging.

Its taken a million J-monkeys something like 5 years just to make aspects work reasonably seamlessly. On squeak guy took a look at it and hacked out AspectS in a weekend. Just to see if it would be helpful. I don't think anybody's bothered to use it but there it is - a simple api on top of the meta object protocol to do the aspect "weaving". Turns out that its hardly worth building a whole facility for it when you can write a couple thingies in a few minutes to do the same thing.




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Re: Would be nice to say that in the docs
I wish I could find something like that in Squeak docs - I think I get all the pieces of Morphic, but not the entire picture.
--


- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.

[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]

New That's it exactly
Reading the language specification, I feel like I'm looking at a catalogue of screws and bolts. Each piece is described in excrutiating detail: load-bearing capacity, shear strength, thread count and pitch, driver required, accessories. But nothing saying why you'd pick the 6-inch lag bolt vs. drilling through and using a machine bolt, nut, washer and lock washer.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New I'd give up on Morphic
Its about to be replaced with Tweak.

Tweak is a ground up new thing - its a little side project of Croquet. There is work to rewrite all the programming tools in tweak - once this is done then Morphic and MVC are going to be excised from the image.

[link|http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3867|http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3867]




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
     When does a java constructor execute? - (drewk) - (56)
         When you say 'new' - (tuberculosis) - (41)
             Word from the IGM on ziwt says ... I was wrong - (drewk) - (40)
                 I think you've got it - (tuberculosis) - (11)
                     Would be nice to say that in the docs - (drewk) - (10)
                         That's missing for most languages - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                             Like Drew, I'm trying to teach myself Java. - (pwhysall) - (5)
                                 "Effective Java" => oxymoron :-) -NT - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                     "Microsoft Works" -NT - (drewk)
                                 What would he know about it? - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                     That's an oddly visceral response. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         Symptomatic of general J-headed attitude - (tuberculosis)
                         Re: Would be nice to say that in the docs - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                             That's it exactly - (drewk)
                             I'd give up on Morphic - (tuberculosis)
                 Now I'm getting frustrated (again) - (drewk) - (27)
                     Re: Now I'm getting frustrated (again) - (admin) - (1)
                         Badness - (jake123)
                     Servlets and business logic - (warmachine) - (22)
                         So is this example stupid? - (drewk) - (21)
                             Hell, yeah! - (warmachine) - (1)
                                 Re: Hell, yeah! - (admin)
                             Way stupid - (tuberculosis) - (18)
                                 Trying to learn The Right Way[tm] - (drewk) - (17)
                                     No such way - (tuberculosis) - (16)
                                         I need to write a small app like it's a big one - (drewk) - (15)
                                             Huh, most people are trying to figure out the opposite - (tuberculosis)
                                             This is classic - (ben_tilly) - (13)
                                                 Um, ... - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                     No. Exceptions exist. But generally, yes. -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                                 Not exactly - (drewk) - (10)
                                                     Good luck - (ben_tilly)
                                                     Ah - so that's what you're trying to do - (tuberculosis) - (8)
                                                         Time to hit the library - (drewk) - (3)
                                                             That's an old interview. - (admin) - (2)
                                                                 Gold mine - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                     Moochos grassy arse -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                         Several copies of Rod's book around here. - (admin) - (3)
                                                             Q on book. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                 Rod's book isn't for administrators - (admin) - (1)
                                                                     Ok, thanks. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                     That's not what they are saying - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                         Servlets and page scoped variables. - (warmachine)
         Re: When does a java constructor execute? - (dshellman) - (13)
             There is a certain amount of value... - (admin) - (1)
                 I already know that - (drewk)
             s/Tomcat/Jetty/ - (tuberculosis) - (10)
                 Based on what? - (admin) - (9)
                     Personal experience - (tuberculosis) - (8)
                         A couple of years back, sure. - (admin) - (7)
                             Oh Tomcat 5 - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                                 Reminds me of Spolsky's piece on Netscape - (FuManChu) - (5)
                                     And I remember disagreeing with it the first time - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                         Makes sense to me. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                             Know what you mean - (tuberculosis)
                                         It's a threshold thing - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                             And that point is completely true - (ben_tilly)

Mmmmmm... whale beer!
165 ms