Post #191,517
1/25/05 10:46:27 AM
|
Here's one more for Bryce:
[link|http://www.devx.com/opinion/Article/26776|OOP Is Much Better in Theory Than in Practice].
Looks almost as if the guy found Bryce's pages and plagiarized them, just to get a controversial column.
Either way, Bryce, just because another idiot is also saying it, doesn't make it right! :-)
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
|
Post #191,522
1/25/05 11:18:26 AM
|
CRC error. Too late... already been pointed out.
On jabber and here. (No, I can't be bothered to find it here!)
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Miltary Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
|
Post #191,649
1/26/05 12:19:09 AM
|
Oh yeah - there's a gem
Obviously not a practicing professional.
"Certainly for the great majority of programmers\ufffdamateurs working alone to create programs such as a quick sales tax utility for a small business or a geography quiz for Junior\ufffdthe machinery of OOP is almost always far more trouble than it's worth."
Yes, for quickie one-offs you don't need it. Although I typically do my quickie one-offs in Squeak.
"Helping to manage large-scale, complex programming jobs like the one in which my friend is involved is the primary value of OOP."
This is true. Come to think of it, pretty much all paying programming these days is large-scale complex programming in teams. Huh. Maybe its not so worthless after all.
"A frequent argument for OOP is it helps with code reusability, but one can reuse code without OOP\ufffdoften by simply copying and pasting."
Hmmm. Yep, that's a great idea. And the mark of a true professional. Of course there are plenty of other helpful tips. But I think we've established the credibility of the author pretty thoroughly with that last remark.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #191,655
1/26/05 3:50:42 AM
|
Yeah, that's the one that struck me the most too. Sheesh!
|
Post #191,802
1/26/05 6:44:32 PM
|
That guy needs to be shot.
Cut-n-paste is *NOT* a good programming technique. I'm maintaining/upgrading a web-site created with that most ancient technique. *shudder* Soooo many pages are near identical.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
|
Post #191,868
1/27/05 1:32:33 AM
|
factoring frowned on
I was at one place where they duplicated the functionality of a module 8 times. I asked if I could refactor it and the architect told me that such had caused too many problems in the past and didn't let me do it. They were afraid of any meta concepts altoghether. That and other things made me decide to up my asking price during the next project contract negotiation round and they didn't bite. In difficult times one should live with crap, but that place was soooooo messed up. Out of all the contracts, I have to give them first place in F-ness, and I've seen tough competition. It was a major phone company that starts with "S". DON'T GO THERE! It is the worse combination of stubborn beurocracy and over-caffinated PHB's. Usually they are somewhat mutually exclusive, but not at this place.
________________
oop.ismad.com
|
Post #191,893
1/27/05 7:43:17 AM
|
You might find this interesting... (new thread)
Created as new thread #191892 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=191892|You might find this interesting...]
|
Post #192,720
2/2/05 7:04:55 PM
|
ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #192719 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=192719|ICLRPD]
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #191,866
1/27/05 1:23:40 AM
|
Divide-and-Conquer
["Helping to manage large-scale, complex programming jobs like the one in which my friend is involved is the primary value of OOP."] This is true. Come to think of it, pretty much all paying programming these days is large-scale complex programming in teams. Huh. Maybe its not so worthless after all.
The trick is to use the database for most of the inter-task communication rather than wods of objects with pointers. That is how you make large projects into lots of smaller projects.
As far as copy-and-paste, that is one thing he didn't copy from me. However, it is often the easiest form of reuse, at least in the short run, because you don't have the burden of trying to make the Ultimate Generic Thing. But I have not seen an example where OO obviously creates more reference-based reuse either. Reuse has kind of fallen out of favor as the major selling point of OO among many OO proponents.
________________
oop.ismad.com
|
Post #191,867
1/27/05 1:25:07 AM
|
!
Did I just see you say that a database is an efficient IPC mechanism?
/me falls over.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #191,869
1/27/05 1:33:20 AM
|
For machines, no. For humans, yes.
________________
oop.ismad.com
|
Post #191,929
1/27/05 9:40:05 AM
|
Database is excellent IPC mechanism (new thread)
Created as new thread #191928 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=191928|Database is excellent IPC mechanism]
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #191,877
1/27/05 4:16:43 AM
|
I e-mailed him about the article
This was his response about cut and paste
"It's not a problem: Ever hear of search and replace? It
takes...what?...about 1 second for the computer to locate all instances
and
make the change throughout the source code. It's accurate, entirely
reliable, and swift."
I also asked him the following
[link|/forums/render/user?username=bluke|bluke]Do you really think Basic is a good programming language?
[him]Yep. Far superior to C or its offspring.
Anyone who thinks Basic is a good programming language has lost any credibility that they might have had.
|
Post #191,882
1/27/05 6:59:18 AM
|
That tells me he has *never* worked with cut-n-paste.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
|
Post #191,924
1/27/05 9:30:24 AM
|
Sure he did
Made good money doing it, too.
Idiot.
|
Post #191,926
1/27/05 9:31:55 AM
|
Never mind
He been a magazine editor, author, for the last 24 years.
Lying idiot.
|
Post #191,764
1/26/05 4:09:11 PM
|
Damn!
Looks almost as if the guy found Bryce's pages and plagiarized them, just to get a controversial column. You are right. There are many things that are suspiciously close to my web-page. For example, I can see three of them together in one spot:
Countless academics point to OOP as the reason C++ is superior to C, neglecting to mention that C itself was an inherently painful language to use and that any abstraction would've been an improvement. C++ too is a difficult language to use; it's just not as difficult as C. That's pretty faint praise.
Efficiency is the stated goal of C-style languages and OOP, but the result is too often the opposite:
* Programming has become bloated\ufffdten lines of code are now needed where one used to suffice.
* Wrapping and mapping often use up programmer and execution time as OOP code struggles with various data stores.
Complaints about using C to paint a bad picture of all of non-OO, "wrapping and mapping" being actual words I used, and the 10-to-1 bloat claim is an actual code sample right on my page. (I admitted there it was an exaggeration meant to illustrate a pattern.) I don't know whether to be flattered to insulted by the likely copying. A citation would have been more polite.
________________
oop.ismad.com
|
Post #191,789
1/26/05 6:16:44 PM
|
Go after him.
That kind of crap shouldn't be allowed to happen.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #191,965
1/27/05 1:04:35 PM
|
I sent him email asking for citation to be added
________________
oop.ismad.com
|
Post #191,975
1/27/05 1:44:08 PM
|
Bah.
The guy is an ass. He should print an apology at least.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #191,985
1/27/05 2:10:10 PM
|
There's always time to escalate.
Wait and see what his response is...
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #192,119
1/28/05 3:43:54 PM
1/28/05 4:05:43 PM
|
Update: he denies it
I sent him a message mentioning that the similarities seem suspicious, and he denies it.
However, he did agree to put a reference to my site at the very end, which perhaps is a way to protect his butt without admitting guilt.
I count roughly 14 similarities. In all the other anti-OO articles I have dug up, there was at best 1 or 2 things that remotely matched. That is a huge leap.
Maybe he found material written by me on various discussion groups without realizing it all came from the same person. There are not very many other dedicated anti-OO trolls.....I mean critics......out there.
________________
oop.ismad.com
Edited by tablizer
Jan. 28, 2005, 04:05:43 PM EST
|
Post #191,825
1/26/05 9:32:52 PM
|
What HE said ^^^
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #191,876
1/27/05 3:46:43 AM
|
32
(quote "Richard Mansfield has written 32 computer books since 1982")
(cry "all the damage that he have done")
(moral "Just because it's written in a book, doesn't make right")
(moral "Don't buy books written by Richard Mansfield")
|
Post #191,925
1/27/05 9:31:18 AM
|
OT: Tried to locate his books at Amazon
Amazon can't find books by specific author, only by author's name. If two different people have same name, the results get mixed up. More is the pity...
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
|
Post #192,007
1/27/05 3:28:45 PM
|
I found 2 of them
the reviews were lousy. People complained that among other things the code examples didn't compile.
|
Post #192,012
1/27/05 3:58:25 PM
|
I wanted to find all of them...
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
|
Post #191,878
1/27/05 4:22:00 AM
1/27/05 4:28:43 AM
|
Here is his bio
[link|http://www.hartgregorygroup.com/about/about_us_richard.htm|Richard Mansfield]
You can see that many of his books have been about Visual Basic.
I checked out the reviews for 2 of his VB books on Amazon, he only got 2 stars. Most of the reviews were negative, the main complaint being that the sample code provided didn't even compile.
Edited by bluke
Jan. 27, 2005, 04:28:43 AM EST
|
Post #191,894
1/27/05 7:46:20 AM
|
According to the author
most of the responses he has received have been positive, hard to believe. I guess most people realized that it was such drivel that there was no point in responding to him.
|
