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New zsh: command not found: apt-get
% uname -a
Linux desktop 2.4.21-2.3a #1 Fri Dec 5 04:53:08 PST 2003 i686 unknown

I don't manage this box - I'm just a user.

Anyhow, I'm exagerating my point - but only a little. Joe clueless is simply going to hit this point, decide it doesn't work, and go buy windows.



"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."     --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."     --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Dec. 14, 2004, 06:30:34 PM EST
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:52 AM EDT
New apt-get is a Debian thinger.
Joe clueless is simply going to hit this point, decide it doesn't work, and go buy windows.


Joe Clueless probably will either buy a box with Linux preinstalled, or buy a handholding distribution that will have information on how to install new software. In either case, he probably won't be thrashing around trying to install a .tar.gz file from Firefox's web site.

Or he's install one of his pirated copies of Windows and then spend days trying to get and install all of the drivers and security updates he needs. :-(

Either way, MS won't be getting more money as a result of being unable to install Firefox, IMO.

Cheers,
Scott.
New That still isn't the point.
It's not Linux at fault here. Oracle had a shitty installer for a long time (still does, but it's much better). Are you going to blame "desktop Windows" for that?
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Does not compute
I have no idea what your last statement means but the parallel you're trying to draw isn't too good.

Oracle isn't an mass market end user product.

A web browser is an end user product.

If linux is to make any inroads, all distros must use a unified intuitive installation mechanism or it will be viewed as balkanized and unreliable.

Defending it doesn't help. Fixing the problem will help. Both Windows and Mac OS X have well defined mechanisms that make going from clicking a link to having a new program easy enough for any layman to accomplish.

This system doesn't. That's a barrier to adoption. Don't want to hear it? Fine. Neither do I. I'll just go back to my mac and dismiss you all as geeks. No skin off my nose.



"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."     --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."     --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:59 AM EDT
New Hand waving.
The point wasn't "Oracle", it was "program with a shitty installer". Pick any program with a shitty installer and substitute at your leisure. There are plenty of educational titles that would fit in its place, in my experience.

And I'm not defending what you seem to think I'm defending. If you want to talk about how crappy the Debian system is, fine, I'll defend that. However, what you're railing against - "desktop Linux" - doesn't exist. I don't need to fix anything; the installer on my system Works Just Fine. That it isn't the same mechanism as your system doesn't matter; it still works.

As far as I'm concerned, installation is a solved problem. There are other issues that are barriers to adoption. Software installation just isn't one of them.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New You don't manage the machine.
THAT is exactly why you are having issues. Not because it isn't ready. Put Debian Linux as an alternate boot for your iBook. You'll have root and you can screw it up anyway you want. Ubunutu Linux has really taken a big leap here lately, get the PPC ISO burn it, resize your disk a bit and install it. It was just working on Friday of last week for me. Looks Awesome too... even comparable to OS-X.

Back your issue.

What Desktop Environment are you using? KDE, GNOME, WindowMaker, BlackBox, Crystal, Monster, Beast?

gtk == gimp tool kit

If gnome is installed... it should have a version. Might not be new enough, might not be compiled for the version you are running.

i686 statically linked is probably the best bet for someone that doesn't have thier own keys to the machine (i.e. sudo or root password)

Basically, rpm is what many distros use to manage application installations. apt/dpkg is what Debian based distros are using.

You see, you are used to a system where you can do what the hell you like. Well currently you have your own little domain in $HOME.

You can control many things, including financial gains from the place, but all you have to do is understand you don't have GAWD access. You are only a user(1), limited in the screwing up of your machine to your $HOME.

When you realize exactly why they are doing this, rather than railing against the whole thing, you'll understand why I force all of my Windows machines to behave a certain way as well.

It comes down to numbers, the more you let your users play, the larger and more heavily staffed your helplessdesk has to be. Locking down Windows is a joke, but can keep people from screwing up the machines. Locking down *NIX or Linux in your case is by default. If you nuke your machine... you only nuke your domain($HOME) not the whole machine.

And as for fixing the installation mechanism... tryout [link|http://fink.sourceforge.net/|Fink] for your OSX. You'll get an idea of what Scott was saying. That is the same installation mechanism that those of us using Debian Linux are using. (AS well as: Ubunutu, Xandros, Debian, Lycoris to name a few). I believe you will see why he says the installation problem is fixed, because it is. RPMers just don't know it yet.


Being this is the real first time you've *HAD* to use Linux... I can see why you are squirming being all userified vs adminified or rootified. I'd hate it myself.


(1) == or luser as many support people call'em
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
New You guys are all confused
Loaded with preconceptions.

Mac OS X don't enter into it - this is a lame assed hp (don't get me started on their hardware failure rate).

I'm not using Mac OS X in any way at work - I have windows to run buttlick and linux box to write software. I'm using linux box for everything now since hp win laptop has gone up in smoke yet again and the hell desk people have it for "at least one more day".

It has Konqueror - which is inadequate. Can't render yahoo mail correctly for instance. It runs KDE - which is really not impressive at all but all I need is terminals and web browsers.

Getting all preachy about Mac OS X or windows management is pointless, as are suggestions on how to run linux on a Mac. I would never waste disk space on a Mac to get linux anymore than I would walk around wearing two sets of pants. Linux is pretty much a subset of OS X.

Also, I've tried FINK a few times - its shit. It craps out every time I try to get something from it. It never works on the Mac. Maybe it works elsewhere but its shit on the Mac. Plus the package names are all incomprehensible.

Also, this isn't the first time I've *had* to use Linux (well, maybe as a desktop - but I've set out to make servers with it and it was way too hard there as well).

Now, Windows users and Mac users have no problem downloading applications and installing them whether they have root or not.

Given that I don't manage the machine (actually I have broad sudo powers but why do I need that to install a friggin APP in $USER space - insanely stupid idea), how am I supposed to get firefox?



"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."     --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."     --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:01 AM EDT
New Now, come on Todd.
Loaded with preconceptions.
I am not loaded with preconceptions. You seem to believe that I only want Linux to dominate the world. No, I want Windows to fall flat on its face.

Mac OS X don't enter into it - this is a lame assed hp (don't get me started on their hardware failure rate).
How can you say OS X doesn't enter the picture. You yourself are comparing "desktop linux" to Windows and OS X.

I'm not using Mac OS X in any way at work - I have windows to run buttlick and linux box to write software. I'm using linux box for everything now since hp win laptop has gone up in smoke yet again and the hell desk people have it for "at least one more day".
Condolences. That is why I call them the "Helpless Desk".

It has Konqueror - which is inadequate. Can't render yahoo mail correctly for instance. It runs KDE - which is really not impressive at all but all I need is terminals and web browsers.
Knoq that old couldn't really render HTML correctly.

Getting all preachy about Mac OS X or windows management is pointless, as are suggestions on how to run linux on a Mac. I would never waste disk space on a Mac to get linux anymore than I would walk around wearing two sets of pants. Linux is pretty much a subset of OS X.
Subset... ok. Preconcieved notion. Windows Management, if the machines are locked down, you can't squirt in the pisser with out the permissions on 2K or XP

Also, I've tried FINK a few times - its shit. It craps out every time I try to get something from it. It never works on the Mac. Maybe it works elsewhere but its shit on the Mac. Plus the package names are all incomprehensible.
Right, shit. Preconcieved notion. Mkay. Guess you are right about everything.

Also, this isn't the first time I've *had* to use Linux (well, maybe as a desktop - but I've set out to make servers with it and it was way too hard there as well).
Excuse me for not being CLEAR. DESKTOP use was what your were ranting about. I figured you had enough where with all to figure I was talking about DESKTOP use of Linux.

Now, Windows users and Mac users have no problem downloading applications and installing them whether they have root or not.
MAC I don't know. But Windows users, if they don't have the perms to install the apps in the directories typically owned by the system, they won;t get the programs installed.

Given that I don't manage the machine (actually I have broad sudo powers but why do I need that to install a friggin APP in $USER space - insanely stupid idea), how am I supposed to get firefox?
The point of that is, the machine is managed. You DO NOT NEED sudo to install an APP in $USER space. That is the point. sudo is an admin piece, and you are completely missing the point. sudo is for doing administrative things, like installing a shared application for the multi-users of the machine. If the machine only has one real user, why not make it easy and use sudo to change the root password, then login as root. Everything will then work like the way you want. Nevermind that you have just opened up the machine to being blown out of existence.

Hey, try runnig MAC OSX non-rootless or with the root account enabled and with shadow enabled. Then talk to me about how easy it is. It'll be just like any other *NIX platform.

If you want drool based installation potential, go use Linspire or Lycoris. They don't have none of this stinking "security" stuff enabled either.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
New Here's how to get Firefox on RedHat 7.2.
Note: I haven't tried this myself.

[link|http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/post-133562.html|LinuxForums] (corrected link and linkified it):

I have installed Redhat 7.2 on a Dell 400Mhz to get to know Linux. I attempted to install Firefox and got this error message:

./firefox-installer-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

What does this error mean? Is it because I am using an older version of Redhat? TIA


The file you need is provided by a package

you can get this package for Redhat 7.x from :

[link|http://apt.kde-redhat.org/kde-redhat/kde-redhat/redhat/7.3/RPMS.stable/gtk2-2.2.4-10.6.rh73.kde.i386.rpm|http://apt.kde-redha...rh73.kde.i386.rpm]

then install as root by:
# rpm -ivh gtk2-2.2.4-10.6.rh73.kde.i386.rpm

while u r on the same dir which contains the package.


I have no idea whether there are untoward side-effects of doing this.

BTW, Why do you want Firefox? For testing? If so, I'd ask for a newer box. :-)

I find I still like Mozilla better (e.g. Firefox doesn't have the keyboard-link-following-mojo that Mozilla has.)

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Wha???
I find I still like Mozilla better (e.g. Firefox doesn't have the keyboard-link-following-mojo that Mozilla has.)
I'm on Linux, so your menu options might change a bit if you're not on Linux...

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Accessibility | Check the "Begin finding when you begin typing" checkbox.
-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New Danke. I looked a bit, but not enough I guess. :-/
New fink runs fine on my mac?
however your problem is an app that requires a library you dont have, a suggestion on where to get the shared lib is below, another suggestion is that redhat may have a really close lib but slightly different name, dig around, find it and link it to the lib firefox wants, has worked for me in the past.
regards and luck.
daemon
that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
New I wondered when the change would happen.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
     Firefox installation - (tuberculosis) - (72)
         Er, no... - (admin) - (24)
             No, his point is well taken. - (jake123) - (10)
                 Missed mine. - (admin) - (2)
                     That may very well be - (jake123) - (1)
                         But like I said - (admin)
                 There should be a standard desktop place to get new apps. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                     Very odd. - (admin) - (3)
                         I'll try again and report back. Thanks. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                             Results of trying apt-get for Privoxy on ProMEPIS. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 apt-get update doesn't do much. - (admin)
                     Check out... - (folkert) - (1)
                         Thanks. I always appreciate your help. -NT - (Another Scott)
             zsh: command not found: apt-get - (tuberculosis) - (12)
                 apt-get is a Debian thinger. - (Another Scott)
                 That still isn't the point. - (admin) - (9)
                     Does not compute - (tuberculosis) - (8)
                         Hand waving. - (admin)
                         You don't manage the machine. - (folkert) - (6)
                             You guys are all confused - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                                 Now, come on Todd. - (folkert)
                                 Here's how to get Firefox on RedHat 7.2. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     Wha??? - (Yendor) - (1)
                                         Danke. I looked a bit, but not enough I guess. :-/ -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 fink runs fine on my mac? - (daemon)
                 I wondered when the change would happen. -NT - (folkert)
         Odd. - (imric) - (43)
             False analogy - (tuberculosis) - (42)
                 On *which* distribution? - (admin) - (21)
                     I don't know - (tuberculosis) - (20)
                         Dunno. - (admin) - (3)
                             Only clue I have is original install uses "disco" - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                 Google says it's RedHat - (admin) - (1)
                                     Ha! :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                         To finger out your release and distro... - (folkert) - (5)
                             RH 7.2 (Enigma). Enigma? You're telling me. - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                 Now you have to wonder. - (folkert) - (3)
                                     Yes, now I wonder what we are running - (tuberculosis)
                                     Windows XP was released over 3 years ago :P - (altmann) - (1)
                                         Indeed, indeed. - (folkert)
                         Doesn't tell you at the login prompt? - (pwhysall) - (9)
                             Really? - (folkert) - (8)
                                 You're a primadonna - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                     Disagree - (broomberg)
                                     Take a CLOSER look. - (folkert) - (4)
                                         ...which has a custom kernel... - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                             Shhhhush. You'll wake the UnixMonster. - (Another Scott)
                                             But NONE of mine are -NT - (broomberg) - (1)
                                                 Fairynuff. - (pwhysall)
                                 Debian? - (imric)
                 It is an apt analogy. - (imric) - (19)
                     You're citing 10 year old software - (tuberculosis) - (18)
                         My sister has a non-working install of Quicktime. On OSX. - (imric) - (17)
                             That would be the exceptional case - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                                 *grin* see edited post above -NT - (imric)
                                 I would like to offer you the same evidence. - (folkert) - (4)
                                     Then tell me how to install firefox - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                         Holy Crap. - (folkert) - (2)
                                             Looks pretty grim - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                 If they say... - (folkert)
                             Drag & Drop installation - (SpiceWare) - (3)
                                 Glad - (imric) - (2)
                                     Disk images are easiest - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                         *shrug* -NT - (imric)
                             Answers - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                                 Re: Answers - (admin) - (4)
                                     Yabut - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                         OLD, OLD, OLD - (folkert)
                                         Gah. - (admin)
                                         But... - (imric)
         Uninformed tosh, I'm afraid. - (pwhysall) - (2)
             I've now read the whole thread. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                 OT: "HEADCRABS!" -NT - (inthane-chan)

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