Firefox installation

11/29/04 3:06:51 PM

There should be a standard desktop place to get new apps.

I've gotten bitten by something similar to Todd's experience. Yesterday I wanted to install Privoxy on ProMEPIS. I downloaded the .deb from [link|http://www.privoxy.org|http://www.privoxy.org] but couldn't figure out what to do with it. I also tried using apt-get from memory, i.e. apt-get install privoxy without success. Yeah, I need to actually find the instructions rather than trying to guess my way through it. ;-) But some of this stuff should be discoverable by the user.

Xandros has an icon on the desktop called Xandros Networks. Inside is a menu item to "Check for New Software" or something similar. KDE and/or Gnome should have an easy to find icon or menu option for finding and installing software on the machine. If it's clear what to do simply by looking at the desktop, then the user will learn to use that and not go browsing for software until they know the system better.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #185,416

by admin

11/29/04 3:16:54 PM

Very odd.

sanderson:~$ apt-cache search privoxy\nprivoxy - Privacy enhancing HTTP Proxy

apt-get install privoxy should do the trick. That's how I installed it.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,417

11/29/04 3:17:45 PM

I'll try again and report back. Thanks.

Post #185,477

11/29/04 7:32:52 PM

Results of trying apt-get for Privoxy on ProMEPIS.

I guess (but don't know for sure) it's a ProMEPIS vs Debian issue. :-(

scott@2[~]$ apt-get install privoxy
E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13 Permission denied)
E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
scott@2[~]$ su root
Password:
root@2[scott]# apt-get install privoxy
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org] testing/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org] testing/contrib Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_contrib_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org] testing/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_testing_non-free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org] unstable/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org] unstable/contrib Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_contrib_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org|ftp://ftp.us.debian.org] unstable/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.us.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_non-free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://non-us.debian.org|ftp://non-us.debian.org] testing/non-US/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_debian-non-US_dists_testing_non-US_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://non-us.debian.org|ftp://non-us.debian.org] testing/non-US/contrib Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_debian-non-US_dists_testing_non-US_contrib_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://non-us.debian.org|ftp://non-us.debian.org] testing/non-US/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_debian-non-US_dists_testing_non-US_non-free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://non-us.debian.org|ftp://non-us.debian.org] unstable/non-US/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_debian-non-US_dists_unstable_non-US_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://non-us.debian.org|ftp://non-us.debian.org] unstable/non-US/contrib Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_debian-non-US_dists_unstable_non-US_contrib_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://non-us.debian.org|ftp://non-us.debian.org] unstable/non-US/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/non-us.debian.org_debian-non-US_dists_unstable_non-US_non-free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|http://download.videolan.org|http://download.videolan.org] sid/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/download.videolan.org_pub_videolan_debian_dists_sid_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|http://2004.mepis.org|http://2004.mepis.org] unstable/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/2004.mepis.org_mepis_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://ftp.nerim.net|ftp://ftp.nerim.net] unstable/main Packages(/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.nerim.net_debian-marillat_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://metalab.unc.edu|ftp://metalab.unc.edu] unstable/main Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/metalab.unc.edu_pub_linux_devel_lang_java_blackdown.org_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: Couldn't stat source package list [link|ftp://metalab.unc.edu|ftp://metalab.unc.edu] unstable/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/metalab.unc.edu_pub_linux_devel_lang_java_blackdown.org_debian_dists_unstable_non-free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)
W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
E: Couldn't find package privoxy
root@2[scott]#

I don't want to potentially break things by doing apt-get update yet. I'll do some research first.

Pointers welcome. Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #185,504

by admin

11/29/04 9:33:08 PM

apt-get update doesn't do much.

It just updates your current package information database.

Since you have an old database, either a) privoxy isn't in it or b) the dependencies are all old and non-existent.

Until you do 'apt-get update' nothing with apt-get will work, and on a Debian box that's pretty useless. :-)

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,511

11/29/04 10:58:13 PM

Check out...

my website, specifically [link|http://www.gregfolkert.net/files/sources.list|My Sources.list]

you can use it with Mephis.

Xandros was selling things like less and gedit etc... Bullshit...

Just keep to testing. Until Sarge turns stable.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,515

11/29/04 11:14:50 PM

Thanks. I always appreciate your help.

Post #185,420

11/29/04 3:47:14 PM

8/21/07 6:06:52 AM

zsh: command not found: apt-get

% uname -a
Linux desktop 2.4.21-2.3a #1 Fri Dec 5 04:53:08 PST 2003 i686 unknown

I don't manage this box - I'm just a user.

Anyhow, I'm exagerating my point - but only a little. Joe clueless is simply going to hit this point, decide it doesn't work, and go buy windows.

Edited by tuberculosis Dec. 14, 2004, 06:30:34 PM EST

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:52 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,422

11/29/04 3:52:32 PM

apt-get is a Debian thinger.

Joe clueless is simply going to hit this point, decide it doesn't work, and go buy windows.

Joe Clueless probably will either buy a box with Linux preinstalled, or buy a handholding distribution that will have information on how to install new software. In either case, he probably won't be thrashing around trying to install a .tar.gz file from Firefox's web site.

Or he's install one of his pirated copies of Windows and then spend days trying to get and install all of the drivers and security updates he needs. :-(

Either way, MS won't be getting more money as a result of being unable to install Firefox, IMO.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #185,424

by admin

11/29/04 4:07:56 PM

That still isn't the point.

It's not Linux at fault here. Oracle had a shitty installer for a long time (still does, but it's much better). Are you going to blame "desktop Windows" for that?

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,427

11/29/04 4:18:53 PM

8/21/07 6:06:59 AM

Does not compute

I have no idea what your last statement means but the parallel you're trying to draw isn't too good.

Oracle isn't an mass market end user product.

A web browser is an end user product.

If linux is to make any inroads, all distros must use a unified intuitive installation mechanism or it will be viewed as balkanized and unreliable.

Defending it doesn't help. Fixing the problem will help. Both Windows and Mac OS X have well defined mechanisms that make going from clicking a link to having a new program easy enough for any layman to accomplish.

This system doesn't. That's a barrier to adoption. Don't want to hear it? Fine. Neither do I. I'll just go back to my mac and dismiss you all as geeks. No skin off my nose.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:59 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,431

by admin

11/29/04 4:25:45 PM

Hand waving.

The point wasn't "Oracle", it was "program with a shitty installer". Pick any program with a shitty installer and substitute at your leisure. There are plenty of educational titles that would fit in its place, in my experience.

And I'm not defending what you seem to think I'm defending. If you want to talk about how crappy the Debian system is, fine, I'll defend that. However, what you're railing against - "desktop Linux" - doesn't exist. I don't need to fix anything; the installer on my system Works Just Fine. That it isn't the same mechanism as your system doesn't matter; it still works.

As far as I'm concerned, installation is a solved problem. There are other issues that are barriers to adoption. Software installation just isn't one of them.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,447

11/29/04 5:25:13 PM

You don't manage the machine.

THAT is exactly why you are having issues. Not because it isn't ready. Put Debian Linux as an alternate boot for your iBook. You'll have root and you can screw it up anyway you want. Ubunutu Linux has really taken a big leap here lately, get the PPC ISO burn it, resize your disk a bit and install it. It was just working on Friday of last week for me. Looks Awesome too... even comparable to OS-X.

Back your issue.

What Desktop Environment are you using? KDE, GNOME, WindowMaker, BlackBox, Crystal, Monster, Beast?

gtk == gimp tool kit

If gnome is installed... it should have a version. Might not be new enough, might not be compiled for the version you are running.

i686 statically linked is probably the best bet for someone that doesn't have thier own keys to the machine (i.e. sudo or root password)

Basically, rpm is what many distros use to manage application installations. apt/dpkg is what Debian based distros are using.

You see, you are used to a system where you can do what the hell you like. Well currently you have your own little domain in $HOME.

You can control many things, including financial gains from the place, but all you have to do is understand you don't have GAWD access. You are only a user(1), limited in the screwing up of your machine to your $HOME.

When you realize exactly why they are doing this, rather than railing against the whole thing, you'll understand why I force all of my Windows machines to behave a certain way as well.

It comes down to numbers, the more you let your users play, the larger and more heavily staffed your helplessdesk has to be. Locking down Windows is a joke, but can keep people from screwing up the machines. Locking down *NIX or Linux in your case is by default. If you nuke your machine... you only nuke your domain($HOME) not the whole machine.

And as for fixing the installation mechanism... tryout [link|http://fink.sourceforge.net/|Fink] for your OSX. You'll get an idea of what Scott was saying. That is the same installation mechanism that those of us using Debian Linux are using. (AS well as: Ubunutu, Xandros, Debian, Lycoris to name a few). I believe you will see why he says the installation problem is fixed, because it is. RPMers just don't know it yet.

Being this is the real first time you've *HAD* to use Linux... I can see why you are squirming being all userified vs adminified or rootified. I'd hate it myself.

(1) == or luser as many support people call'em

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,474

11/29/04 7:27:46 PM

8/21/07 6:08:01 AM

You guys are all confused

Loaded with preconceptions.

Mac OS X don't enter into it - this is a lame assed hp (don't get me started on their hardware failure rate).

I'm not using Mac OS X in any way at work - I have windows to run buttlick and linux box to write software. I'm using linux box for everything now since hp win laptop has gone up in smoke yet again and the hell desk people have it for "at least one more day".

It has Konqueror - which is inadequate. Can't render yahoo mail correctly for instance. It runs KDE - which is really not impressive at all but all I need is terminals and web browsers.

Getting all preachy about Mac OS X or windows management is pointless, as are suggestions on how to run linux on a Mac. I would never waste disk space on a Mac to get linux anymore than I would walk around wearing two sets of pants. Linux is pretty much a subset of OS X.

Also, I've tried FINK a few times - its shit. It craps out every time I try to get something from it. It never works on the Mac. Maybe it works elsewhere but its shit on the Mac. Plus the package names are all incomprehensible.

Also, this isn't the first time I've *had* to use Linux (well, maybe as a desktop - but I've set out to make servers with it and it was way too hard there as well).

Now, Windows users and Mac users have no problem downloading applications and installing them whether they have root or not.

Given that I don't manage the machine (actually I have broad sudo powers but why do I need that to install a friggin APP in $USER space - insanely stupid idea), how am I supposed to get firefox?

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:01 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,483

11/29/04 8:07:43 PM

Now, come on Todd.

Loaded with preconceptions.

I am not loaded with preconceptions. You seem to believe that I only want Linux to dominate the world. No, I want Windows to fall flat on its face.

Mac OS X don't enter into it - this is a lame assed hp (don't get me started on their hardware failure rate).

How can you say OS X doesn't enter the picture. You yourself are comparing "desktop linux" to Windows and OS X.

I'm not using Mac OS X in any way at work - I have windows to run buttlick and linux box to write software. I'm using linux box for everything now since hp win laptop has gone up in smoke yet again and the hell desk people have it for "at least one more day".

Condolences. That is why I call them the "Helpless Desk".

It has Konqueror - which is inadequate. Can't render yahoo mail correctly for instance. It runs KDE - which is really not impressive at all but all I need is terminals and web browsers.

Knoq that old couldn't really render HTML correctly.

Getting all preachy about Mac OS X or windows management is pointless, as are suggestions on how to run linux on a Mac. I would never waste disk space on a Mac to get linux anymore than I would walk around wearing two sets of pants. Linux is pretty much a subset of OS X.

Subset... ok. Preconcieved notion. Windows Management, if the machines are locked down, you can't squirt in the pisser with out the permissions on 2K or XP

Also, I've tried FINK a few times - its shit. It craps out every time I try to get something from it. It never works on the Mac. Maybe it works elsewhere but its shit on the Mac. Plus the package names are all incomprehensible.

Right, shit. Preconcieved notion. Mkay. Guess you are right about everything.

Also, this isn't the first time I've *had* to use Linux (well, maybe as a desktop - but I've set out to make servers with it and it was way too hard there as well).

Excuse me for not being CLEAR. DESKTOP use was what your were ranting about. I figured you had enough where with all to figure I was talking about DESKTOP use of Linux.

Now, Windows users and Mac users have no problem downloading applications and installing them whether they have root or not.

MAC I don't know. But Windows users, if they don't have the perms to install the apps in the directories typically owned by the system, they won;t get the programs installed.

Given that I don't manage the machine (actually I have broad sudo powers but why do I need that to install a friggin APP in $USER space - insanely stupid idea), how am I supposed to get firefox?

The point of that is, the machine is managed. You DO NOT NEED sudo to install an APP in $USER space. That is the point. sudo is an admin piece, and you are completely missing the point. sudo is for doing administrative things, like installing a shared application for the multi-users of the machine. If the machine only has one real user, why not make it easy and use sudo to change the root password, then login as root. Everything will then work like the way you want. Nevermind that you have just opened up the machine to being blown out of existence.

Hey, try runnig MAC OSX non-rootless or with the root account enabled and with shadow enabled. Then talk to me about how easy it is. It'll be just like any other *NIX platform.

If you want drool based installation potential, go use Linspire or Lycoris. They don't have none of this stinking "security" stuff enabled either.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,489

11/29/04 8:25:19 PM

Here's how to get Firefox on RedHat 7.2.

Note: I haven't tried this myself.

[link|http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/post-133562.html|LinuxForums] (corrected link and linkified it):

I have installed Redhat 7.2 on a Dell 400Mhz to get to know Linux. I attempted to install Firefox and got this error message:

./firefox-installer-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

What does this error mean? Is it because I am using an older version of Redhat? TIA

The file you need is provided by a package

you can get this package for Redhat 7.x from :

[link|http://apt.kde-redhat.org/kde-redhat/kde-redhat/redhat/7.3/RPMS.stable/gtk2-2.2.4-10.6.rh73.kde.i386.rpm|http://apt.kde-redha...rh73.kde.i386.rpm]

then install as root by:
# rpm -ivh gtk2-2.2.4-10.6.rh73.kde.i386.rpm

while u r on the same dir which contains the package.

I have no idea whether there are untoward side-effects of doing this.

BTW, Why do you want Firefox? For testing? If so, I'd ask for a newer box. :-)

I find I still like Mozilla better (e.g. Firefox doesn't have the keyboard-link-following-mojo that Mozilla has.)

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #185,542

by Yendor

11/30/04 9:30:46 AM

Wha???

I find I still like Mozilla better (e.g. Firefox doesn't have the keyboard-link-following-mojo that Mozilla has.)

I'm on Linux, so your menu options might change a bit if you're not on Linux...

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Accessibility | Check the "Begin finding when you begin typing" checkbox.

-YendorMike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania

Post #185,544

11/30/04 9:48:22 AM

Danke. I looked a bit, but not enough I guess. :-/

Post #185,495

by daemon

11/29/04 8:44:27 PM

fink runs fine on my mac?

however your problem is an app that requires a library you dont have, a suggestion on where to get the shared lib is below, another suggestion is that redhat may have a really close lib but slightly different name, dig around, find it and link it to the lib firefox wants, has worked for me in the past.
regards and luck.
daemon

that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE
clearwater highschool marching band [link|http://www.chstornadoband.org/|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]

Post #187,209

12/16/04 3:40:03 PM

I wondered when the change would happen.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,414

by imric

11/29/04 3:06:01 PM

Odd.

Personally, I think your conclusion is false. By that logic, Mac was NEVER ready for the desktop.

My sister couldn't run a quicktime movie on her OSX box this weekend (quicktime wouldn't run, the install was bad) - and it ran fine on my Debian-based Linux Thinkpad - should I conclude that Mac OSX is still not ready as a desktop?

And as for pre-OSX, I seem to remember running around different compression formats / installation package formats that required Aladdin, or some such program. I guess Mac wasn't ready for the desktop then, either.

In contrast, nothing like that happens when I use any of the Debian package management programs (the desktop program is Synaptic). Kpackage will install packages if you click on the icon of a downloaded package.

I seem to remember that even the Redhat package management system installed things with a click on the downloaded package's icon.

To disparage 'linux' because Firefox didn't have a 'package' available for download is a bit extreme. After all, programs distributed for the Mac had the same 'problem', no?

or WASN'T the Mac ever ready for prime-time?

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #185,421

11/29/04 3:52:07 PM

8/21/07 6:06:57 AM

False analogy

"My sister couldn't run a quicktime movie on her OSX box this weekend (quicktime wouldn't run, the install was bad)"

There's nothing wrong with this install.

My point is the lack of a standard mechanism for reliable software distribution for end user software.

"My sister couldn't run a quicktime movie on her OSX box this weekend (quicktime wouldn't run, the install was bad)"

Well, as a Mac user since 1989, I've found that 99% of the time, you simply click a link and are lead through an obvious series of steps that results in your software being installed.

As a linux user, I've found that 99% of the time the result is failure for typically mystifying reasons.

It's (the user experience) not ready for end users.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:57 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,425

by admin

11/29/04 4:09:43 PM

On *which* distribution?

Until you answer that, you're just hand-waving. "Linux" is the kernel. "desktop Linux" is a fantasy. Which distribution are you having issues with?

I don't have that kind of problem on my machine.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,428

11/29/04 4:19:52 PM

8/21/07 6:07:01 AM

I don't know

how would I find out? I did a uname -a which wasn't very descriptive.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:01 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,433

by admin

11/29/04 4:29:36 PM

Dunno.

Mine says "GNU/Linux" which is typical of a Debian installation. Greg would probably know.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,436

11/29/04 4:35:45 PM

8/21/07 6:07:18 AM

Only clue I have is original install uses "disco"

or something like that.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:18 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,438

by admin

11/29/04 4:41:55 PM

Google says it's RedHat

Not because of "disco", though: [link|http://news.com.com/2100-1001-275155.html?legacy=cnet|http://news.com.com/....html?legacy=cnet] :-)

If that machine is running RedHat, no wonder you think program installation in Linux sucks.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,439

11/29/04 4:45:07 PM

Ha! :-)

Post #185,443

11/29/04 4:59:03 PM

To finger out your release and distro...

The uname -a gave me an inkling.

cat /etc/redhat-release

or to find out what release, some distros use /etc/<something>-release or /etc/release-<something>

Other like Debian and such use both /etc/issue* and/or /etc/motd*

basically, I gotsa feeling "RHWS v3.0+patches/updates"

And Todd, you are utterly right, RHWS is utter crap compared to many other easier to manage distros.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,475

11/29/04 7:30:18 PM

8/21/07 6:08:03 AM

RH 7.2 (Enigma). Enigma? You're telling me.

% cat /etc/redhat-release
Red Hat Linux release 7.2 (Enigma)

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:03 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,480

11/29/04 7:47:21 PM

Now you have to wonder.

7.2 is actually quite OLD.

August - 2001. Three and a half years old.

And, let me ask you, you expect 3 1/2 year old (actually more like 4.5 based on the compiler used to make enigma) to actually just RUN Firefox?

Umm, yeah. Okay.

I think your judgement of Linux based on Enigma (redhat 7.2) IS NOT TYPICAL today, using a updated Distro.

Enigma was the second worst (in bugs, security and just flat out problems) redhat release right behind RedHat 6.1, which was compromisable two weeks before it was released.

Try an [link|http://ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/.pool/warty-live-i386.iso|Ubuntu LiveCD] in it. Then make a judgement. Of course you'll have to give a few points for running from CD... as the CD Reader is the biggest holdup there.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,482

11/29/04 7:59:25 PM

8/21/07 6:08:09 AM

Yes, now I wonder what we are running

in production.

:-/

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:09 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,490

by altmann

11/29/04 8:28:53 PM

Windows XP was released over 3 years ago :P

That said, IMHO the punctuated equilibrium style of OS releases just isn't suited to Linux and OSS. I imagine that's why many of you use Debian.

--
Chris Altmann

Post #185,492

11/29/04 8:35:01 PM

Indeed, indeed.

once a week (for me at the minimum):

dselect update && apt-get -u dist-upgrade

I live dangerously as well. with Experimental as my default.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,828

12/2/04 11:45:02 AM

Doesn't tell you at the login prompt?

'ow queer.

Uname -a will reveal the distro for all the majors.

Post #185,857

12/2/04 4:50:49 PM

Really?

Hmm:
[greg@king:~]$ uname -a Linux king 2.6.8-1-k7 #1 Thu Nov 25 04:13:37 UTC 2004 i686 GNU/Linux [greg@king:~]$
Hmmm:
[greg@knight:greg]$ uname -a Linux knight 2.4.27-1-k7 #1 Fri Sep 3 06:21:29 UTC 2004 i686 GNU/Linux [greg@knight:greg]$
Hmmmmm:
greg@ariel:~$ uname -a Linux ariel 2.6.8 #1 Mon Sep 27 10:29:27 BST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux greg@ariel:~$
HMM:
[greg@wamgr:greg]$ uname -a Linux wamgr 2.4.26 #1 Thu Apr 15 13:02:11 EDT 2004 i686 unknown [greg@wamgr:greg]$
HMMMM:
[greg@mail greg]$ uname -a Linux mail 2.4.20-20.7 #1 Mon Aug 18 15:05:54 EDT 2003 i686 unknown [greg@mail greg]$

Tell me, what Distributions all 5 machines are please.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,859

12/2/04 5:25:40 PM

You're a primadonna

Most Linuxes tell you.

The fact that yours do not proves nothing.

Post #185,871

by broomberg

12/2/04 8:05:08 PM

Disagree

[broom@mix broom]$ uname -a
Linux mix 2.4.9-e.30smp #1 SMP Fri Nov 28 07:18:53 EST 2003 i686 unknown

[broom@mash broom]$ uname -a
Linux mash 2.4.21-20.ELsmp #1 SMP Wed Aug 18 20:31:57 EDT 2004 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux

[broom@dice broom]$ uname -a
Linux dice 2.4.18-19.7.xsmp #1 SMP Thu Dec 12 07:56:58 EST 2002 i686 unknown

<rend broom pts/4 /home/broom>
$ uname -a
Linux rend 2.4.20-18.7smp #1 SMP Thu May 29 07:49:23 EDT 2003 i686 unknown

<slice broom pts/0 /home/broom>
$ uname -a
Linux slice 2.4.18-19.7.xsmp #1 SMP Thu Dec 12 07:56:58 EST 2002 i686 unknown

[broom@stomp broom]$ uname -a
Linux stomp.cc3.com 2.4.21-20.ELsmp #1 SMP Wed Aug 18 20:46:40 EDT 2004 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

<rip broom pts/0 /home/broom>
$ uname -a
Linux rip 2.4.20-18.7smp #1 SMP Thu May 29 07:49:23 EDT 2003 i686 unknown

<shred broom pts/1 /ldhome/broom>
$ uname -a
Linux shred 2.4.21-4.ELsmp #1 SMP Fri Oct 3 17:52:56 EDT 2003 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

Shall I go on? All of the are from a major commercial distributer, installed in as a vanilla fashion as possible.

Post #185,884

12/2/04 11:27:08 PM

Take a CLOSER look.

You'll see one of them is *YOUR* machine. Sheesh.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,886

12/2/04 11:34:49 PM

...which has a custom kernel...

...which makes it not "most" distros :-)

Speaking of. I really ought to get a stock kernel on there.

I'm firmly in the "rolling your own kernels is a waste of time unless it's unavoidable" camp ,these days.

Post #185,889

12/2/04 11:57:24 PM

Shhhhush. You'll wake the UnixMonster.

Er, actually, that might not be a bad idea... :-(

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #185,897

by broomberg

12/3/04 6:54:55 AM

But NONE of mine are

Post #185,899

12/3/04 7:09:59 AM

Fairynuff.

SuSE and Mandrake, IIRC, brand their kernels, as does (did, once, I saw it, honest) Red Hat.

And if they've STOPPED doing it, then, why, I shall have to start a campaign to get them to START doing it.

Post #185,866

by imric

12/2/04 6:20:39 PM

Debian?

Sorry - I couldn't resist.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #185,426

by imric

11/29/04 4:17:18 PM

It is an apt analogy.

My (limited) Mac experience started with 8 - and as far as the last install of a browser I did went, I first had to download the package. Then I had to download and install an 'unstuffer'. then I couldn't get the installer to run. Then I had to search out a reason why on the 'net. I had to try a number of different solutions, IIRC.

Bottom line is, after my experience with 8, and hearing/(and dealing with, when I was home) my old man's problems with connecting to the net via cable modem on 9 (he got so frustrated that he dropped cable access and bought a Windows notebook), I stopped believing in the Mac 'magic' desktop. What annoyed you was not even bad software; it was a website that didn't offer you exactly what you wanted. If THAT was a reason to disparage the 'linux desktop', then the problems I had with my (and my father's) Macs are more than enough to disparage the 'mac desktop'.

If you argue that I should have known more about what was installed on my macs, and the package formats and handlers needed to install something, well, pot-kettle-black. If you argue that a websites offering a software package that doesn't install simply and cleanly means the desktop sucks, well, then, macs must suck.

My sister had a software package that was badly installed (quicktime I assume). YOU had a software that was badly installed.

As to your 'percentages', well, it's MY experience that they are not only exaggerated - they should be reversed. I've had VERY few problems of any sort since I 'went Debian' - I had fewer problems dealing with my linux boxes than with my old Macs even when I was using Redhat for that matter. Of course, I use package management systems.

The analogy is APT.

And no, I don't believe that there are problems with the mac desktop.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #185,429

11/29/04 4:22:46 PM

8/21/07 6:07:03 AM

You're citing 10 year old software

to justify your position. 10 years ago Windows sucked eggs too. So did linux.

TODAY I can generally click on a link and end up with running software on both Mac OS X and Windows (any recent rev).

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:03 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,430

by imric

11/29/04 4:23:30 PM

11/29/04 5:44:49 PM

My sister has a non-working install of Quicktime. On OSX.

Further - does ALL mac software use the same installer? Have the same dependencies?

Does the mac package handler check dependencies? Does it update any necessary extensions when installing things? Update the OS if necessary? Add new drivers?

The point is, I do not believe in the 'magic' desktop that installs everything with a 'click'.

I DO believe in an OS that installs ALMOST everything with a 'click', though. I've seen it. It's Debian. Administered graphically. Linux.

I can believe that Mac OSX might approach this; I haven't seen it though. I try not to disparage things I know little about.

The reason you cite for the failure of 'desktop linux' is applicable to Windows, to Mac, and yes, even to OS/2. (edit: I use "though" too often)

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Edited by imric Nov. 29, 2004, 04:35:22 PM EST

Edited by imric Nov. 29, 2004, 05:44:49 PM EST

Expand All History

Post #185,435

11/29/04 4:34:48 PM

8/21/07 6:07:13 AM

That would be the exceptional case

Different data point - when I use a Mac, things mostly work but occasionally there are problems. My linux experience is things mostly have problems but things occasionally work.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:13 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,437

by imric

11/29/04 4:36:10 PM

*grin* see edited post above

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #185,452

11/29/04 5:39:57 PM

I would like to offer you the same evidence.

My experiences in both OSX and Debian Linux are equivalent on the rate of failure to success. (For me really any Linux variant)

Sure, it took me a while to stop suckling on the command-line teat, but I did do it. But that was a while ago... and the fond memories have faded to a general warm-feeling inside.

It is actually a toss up as to wether or not Windows will work after an installation of said game, or of said Spyware, Adware, OS updates... anything, it all depends on the moon phases and what the tea leaves look like. For those with a sacrifical bent, how many fertile chickens you slaughter and drain the blood from and burn in the fire.

Linux and MAC OSX both have a very robust set of features that can be turned off and on when and how you like. You are just more familiar with MAC by choice, Windows because of the 92% number.

I am more familiar with Linux in General (love that Debian Sid) than I am with MAC OSX, but there again I know Windows because of that 92% number.

So, in effect you are telling me, the reason I don't like MAC OSX is because I don't understand it... I am telling you you don't like Linux because you don't understand it.

Sure, I love Linux as much as you Love OSX, effectively we are both zealots... just to different beholdings.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,470

11/29/04 7:05:46 PM

8/21/07 6:07:58 AM

Then tell me how to install firefox

and I'll shut up.

No I can't install debian - this is a corporate box.

Edited by tuberculosis Nov. 29, 2004, 07:06:34 PM EST

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:58 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,491

11/29/04 8:32:13 PM

Holy Crap.

Look at the [link|http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/system-requirements.html|system requirements]:

Linux
Software Requirements
Please note that Linux distributors may provide packages for your distribution which have different requirements.
Linux kernel - 2.2.14 with the following libraries or packages minimums:
glibc 2.3.2
XFree86-3.3.6
gtk+2.0
fontconfig (also known as xft)
libstdc++5
Firefox has been tested on Red Hat Linux 8.0 and later
Minimum Hardware
Intel Pentium II or AMD K6-III+ 233 MHz CPU (Recommended: 500MHz or greater)
64 MB RAM (Recommended: 128 MB RAM or greater)
52 MB hard drive space

Seems they don't believe in static linking anymore.

And you'll never get xft/fontconfig on enigma, GTK v2.0 is waaaay newer than what you have on your machine. I'll bet you have gtk v1.2 on that machine.

And, no, I don't care about you putting Debian on it. It would be nice if you could though.

To check to see what version you have try:

rpm -qa | grep -i -e gtk -e glibc -e libstdc -e XFree -e xft -e fontconfig

Bet you find that you are woefully out of date.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,494

11/29/04 8:42:48 PM

8/21/07 6:08:16 AM

Looks pretty grim

only XFree86 is new enough.

I'll have to start digging in the prod group and see what is in production (we need to mirror production - ya know?)

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:16 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,505

11/29/04 9:59:28 PM

If they say...

Put on whatever you want...

Try the new [link|http://ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/.pool/warty-install-i386.iso|Ubuntu v4.1 Warty]

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,444

by SpiceWare

11/29/04 5:04:04 PM

Drag & Drop installation

[link|http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/delicious-library.ars|ars technica review] of Delicious Library covers the standard method of installation under Mac OS X on [link|http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/delicious-library.ars/2|page 2].

Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

Post #185,450

by imric

11/29/04 5:36:55 PM

Glad

to hear it; are those images required for software installation, though? And do they take into account dependencies?

Sounds like ease of use approaches that of Debian, though, if the disk image packaging format is used.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #185,476

11/29/04 7:32:47 PM

8/21/07 6:08:08 AM

Disk images are easiest

You put your app in a folder - hilight the folder and select "Make disk image" from the File menu. A .dmg file is created. Ship it.

Are the images necessary. No, of course not. They just make it more fun.

I don't get the dependency obsession - OS X comes with rich api. If you depend on something not in the api, put it in your app wrapper so it drags with your app.

Apps should be self contained. Duh.

Edited by tuberculosis Nov. 29, 2004, 07:37:00 PM EST

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:08:08 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,508

by imric

11/29/04 10:21:11 PM

*shrug*

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #185,461

11/29/04 6:32:46 PM

8/21/07 6:07:41 AM

Answers

does ALL mac software use the same installer? Have the same dependencies?

Yes - as much as for anything else. I'm sure there are rogue programs on all systems so I don't think ALL applies anywhere.

There are two distro formats - install packages (ending in .pkg) and disk images (*.dmg). Disk images you just double click and they mount - either you drag the app on the image into your application folder, or its a package installer thing and you double click it and follow the instructions. The installer is provided by apple and is generally a gui on shell scripts. Yes, even stuff like postgres is installed via the package installer. Things are occasionally tar.gz'd. The system knows how to deal with these - just double click them.

Does the mac package handler check dependencies?
Yes it does. It also automatically prelinks shared libs when they are installed which vastly improves app startup time.

Does it update any necessary extensions when installing things? Update the OS if necessary? Add new drivers?

Jeezus I hope not. How can you guarantee stability if you do that stuff for an application install. It will check OS version for compatibility though.

The point is, I do not believe in the 'magic' desktop that installs everything with a 'click'.

Hmmm. I do not believe in fucking with the OS for an application install. Write to stable interfaces people! If you need some optional package - bundle it in your app, add an installation script to go get it, or have the installer instruct the user to install the required functionality.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:41 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,464

by admin

11/29/04 6:40:37 PM

Re: Answers

If you need some optional package - bundle it in your app, add an installation script to go get it, or have the installer instruct the user to install the required functionality.

Bleah, why would I want to go through that trouble, when I can just say "this depends on X, Y, and Z... let the user decide if they want them automatically installed or not" and the built-in installer takes care of the rest, keeping the entire state of the system in mind for me.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #185,469

11/29/04 7:04:13 PM

8/21/07 6:07:54 AM

Yabut

the system requirements on linux seem fragile.

Firefox install failed on a std C library version issue? WTF?

This just never happens on the mac as far as I can see. Most stuff simply drag n drop installs.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:54 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #185,485

11/29/04 8:14:39 PM

OLD, OLD, OLD

The libc version on Engima was missing them when it was published. The had an update to take care of it.

To get Firefox installed you need to use the statically linked version of firefox against the libc5 versions.

It sucks, but you experience this when trying to install the latest game requiring DirectX v9.0g which is not available for Win98 and never will be. But v9.0c did work... so it isn't just a failing on a standard, it is a failing to keep it up-to-date.

I can drag and drop installs too. I use synaptic for that.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey

No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]

Post #185,500

by admin

11/29/04 9:13:14 PM

11/29/04 9:19:12 PM

Gah.

Todd. Linux is the KERNEL. You're really talking about "RedHat Linux".

This kind of stuff doesn't happen on Debian either. That's why I said, "bleah". I don't have to worry about that kind of crap.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Edited by admin Nov. 29, 2004, 09:19:12 PM EST

Expand All History

Post #185,509

by imric

11/29/04 10:26:37 PM

But...

didn't YOU chide ME for bringing up old versions?

*chuckle*

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #185,827

12/2/04 11:42:15 AM

Uninformed tosh, I'm afraid.

Consider that for all current major distributions there is a right way and a wrong way to install software; much like there's a right way and a wrong way to insert a CDROM into the CDROM drive.

The right way is to use your distribution's package management tools. ("apt-get install mozilla-firefox", "yum install mozilla-firefox", etc etc)

The wrong way is to grab a binary of unknown provenance from a web site, fail to read the instructions, and then complain when it doesn't work - a course of action not dissimilar to smearing said CDROM with jam before insertion.

Your complaint is, in short, analogous to me whining that software installation on Mac OS X is crap because Fink is crap.

The answer is, as usual, "don't do that, then".

Post #185,829