Guess who said it.

These passages from Romans represent the consensus of Western thought until very recent times. Not just of Christian or religious thought, but of secular thought regarding the powers of the state. That consensus has been upset, I think, by the emergence of democracy. It is easy to see the hand of the Almighty behind rulers whose forebears, in the dim mists of history, were supposedly anointed by God, or who at least obtained their thrones in awful and unpredictable battles whose outcome was determined by the Lord of Hosts, that is, the Lord of Armies. It is much more difficult to see the hand of God\ufffdor any higher moral authority\ufffdbehind the fools and rogues (as the losers would have it) whom we ourselves elect to do our own will. How can their power to avenge\ufffdto vindicate the \ufffdpublic order\ufffd\ufffdbe any greater than our own?

No fair googling. Ben, you probably already know, so you're disqualified. Todd, remember what I said to you in the car on the way back to Ballard? I left off "and tyrants."

Post #184,071 by inthane-chan 11/15/04 12:26:56 AM Reply	Guess who said it. These passages from Romans represent the consensus of Western thought until very recent times. Not just of Christian or religious thought, but of secular thought regarding the powers of the state. That consensus has been upset, I think, by the emergence of democracy. It is easy to see the hand of the Almighty behind rulers whose forebears, in the dim mists of history, were supposedly anointed by God, or who at least obtained their thrones in awful and unpredictable battles whose outcome was determined by the Lord of Hosts, that is, the Lord of Armies. It is much more difficult to see the hand of God\ufffdor any higher moral authority\ufffdbehind the fools and rogues (as the losers would have it) whom we ourselves elect to do our own will. How can their power to avenge\ufffdto vindicate the \ufffdpublic order\ufffd\ufffdbe any greater than our own? No fair googling. Ben, you probably already know, so you're disqualified. Todd, remember what I said to you in the car on the way back to Ballard? I left off "and tyrants." "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our disposal hundred megawatt laser beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his 'SMITE' button for our fire control system."
Post #184,074 by Another Scott 11/15/04 7:51:28 AM Reply	You've given too many hints. KP?
Post #184,095 by inthane-chan 11/15/04 11:26:51 AM Reply	Who's KP?
Post #184,097 by Another Scott 11/15/04 11:33:25 AM Reply	Kevin Phillips. I guess he's not it. :-(
Post #184,099 by inthane-chan 11/15/04 11:45:35 AM Reply	No, he didn't say it. You're definitely on to something, though. "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our disposal hundred megawatt laser beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his 'SMITE' button for our fire control system."
Post #184,089 by ben_tilly 11/15/04 10:31:48 AM Reply	Actually I didn't know it... I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #184,102 by a6l6e6x 11/15/04 12:15:12 PM Reply	But, now that you do, not surprised either. :) How different life was before Google. Alex In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, poet (1772-1834)
Post #184,103 by folkert 11/15/04 12:29:14 PM Reply	Hmm.... Chuck B? I am completely a miss if it wasn't him -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #184,161 by inthane-chan 11/15/04 7:54:59 PM Reply	Nope.
Post #184,184 by folkert 11/15/04 8:52:14 PM Reply	2nd try... I was doing my daily reading at [link\|http://www.pbs.org/\|PBS] and ran across something. In May of this year, Bill Moyer interviewed a person that could be considered a very "open" thinker. This person used to work at the New York Times and the Washington Post. This person recently wrote a book, it deals with the religious skepticism of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, etc... Basically the founding fathers way in which they feel the Constitution was based on Human rights. Not other things that often sidetracks many, many, many people. Am I close? -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #184,187 by ben_tilly 11/15/04 8:56:44 PM Reply	Nope I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #184,189 by folkert 11/15/04 9:00:24 PM Reply	/me is lost then... Not even CLOSE? -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #184,224 by ben_tilly 11/15/04 11:13:14 PM 11/15/04 11:15:31 PM Reply	You made a bad assumption See the edit history for a hint that narrows the possible sources of the quote down by perhaps 50%. The hint is subtle enough that it shouldn't make the answer at all obvious though. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother) Edited by ben_tilly Nov. 15, 2004, 11:15:31 PM EST Expand All History
Post #184,158 by daemon 11/15/04 7:47:17 PM Reply	Hunter Thompson? that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #184,162 by inthane-chan 11/15/04 7:55:10 PM Reply	Nope. Not even.
Post #184,208 by daemon 11/15/04 9:43:28 PM Reply	second try, Jerry Spence? that way too many Iraqis conceived of free society as little more than a mosh pit with grenades. ANDISHEH NOURAEE clearwater highschool marching band [link\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/\|http://www.chstornadoband.org/]
Post #184,180 by deSitter 11/15/04 8:48:25 PM Reply	K Phillips? -drl
Post #184,192 by ChrisR 11/15/04 9:04:44 PM Reply	Barbra Streisand At the beginning of the [link\|http://www.snopes.com/quotes/caesar.htm\|Drums of War] speech. :-) Ok, I cheated with google => Four of Nine.
Post #184,196 by Another Scott 11/15/04 9:13:46 PM Reply	No no, that was Shakespeare. Made ya look. Cheers, Scott. (Who wishes InThane would end this as I keep wanting to make a remark about a short guy with bad hair.)
Post #184,195 by folkert 11/15/04 9:12:17 PM Reply	BTW, Todd is waiting for DNS to propagate at... The place he works. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source] Here is an example: [link\|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/\|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
Post #184,197 by Ashton 11/15/04 9:14:13 PM Reply	Gotta be a lawyer Use of Almighty.. Lord of Hosts pegs (his/her version of) pop-Christianity. This is a person who confuses 'freedom of religion' and 'sep. of Church/State' to impute that the Founders really Meant wink wink nudge nudge knowwhatImean? - except Christianity. Yer With US or Agin US. Again. Lots of those around; can be skilled rhetorician and remain ignorant of metaphysics around the world, especially if Murican. Court? less likely Pol - not a Prof. OK I'm Googling next - -

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