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New Counterpoint...
I don't think they're arguing that the ice isn't disappearing. I think they're arguing that we don't know that humans have caused it in its entirety.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New 'In it's entirety'
It has been scientifically measured that a bird took a dump on the ice in 1997, causing "significant melt" so there's no way humans can be responsible "in its entirety".

What will be "in its entirety" is a sudden dramatic climatic shift causing extreme dislocation of agriculture and national economies. Evidence is these things happen very quickly and may be accompanied by tremendous storms, so Florida, hold on to your hat.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Lower third of Florida
will need more than their hat, unless it's to bail out the boat.

It'll be interesting to see what the masses do to the Titans of Industry once they figure out just how badly we're all screwed.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Clinton caused it.
He had SEX in the WHITE HOUSE and now GOD is PUNISHING US.

Four more years!

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New I'll make popcorn
--
Chris Altmann
New I'm not saying I agree.
Just that I don't think they're denying that the ice is actually melting.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Yup.
There are 2, er 3 issues.

1) Is the ice melting? Y/N

Most people would say Y.

2) Is the melting unusual? Y/N

It is on the last 100-200 year or so timescale, but it's not clear if it is on other time scales. Scientists have to answer this.

3) Is the melting caused by what humans have done and are doing to the environment? Y/N

This is where it gets hairy. Some say yes; some say no; some say we don't know and won't know until we do more studies and shouldn't change economic policy until we do; some say we don't know but the risk is so large that we have to act as if we do know. Scientists and politicians have to answer this.

I'm in the "we don't know, we need more studies, and we should take the risk seriously but not exaggerate it" camp. I remember in grade school that we were taught that the next ice age was just around the corner. And I'm also given pause by the recent controversy about the [link|http://www.techcentralstation.com/102704F.html|"hockey stick"] temperature measurements/extrapolations. We need to know more, there's no doubt, but we shouldn't take the problem lightly.

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who realizes that there are some scenarios where ice ages can result from too much CO2 in the atmosphere.)
New Don't forget...
4) If so, we should quickly sign an agreement hamstringing the economies of the west while giving a completely free ride to China and Southeast Asia where the issues of pollution are getting worse instead of better.

[link|http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/12/asia.haze/|Brown is a good color!] But we have to make sure Kansas is safe!
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     Bush in denial on global warming - (tuberculosis) - (20)
         warming in the arctic is a good thing - (daemon)
         As are thousands of scientists... - (johnu) - (18)
             ^^ This, friends, is what we're up against - (deSitter) - (2)
                 ^^ This, friends, is why democrats keep losing - (johnu) - (1)
                     ^^ and this, friends, is why republicans keep winning - (rcareaga)
             yeah, that "petition"... - (rcareaga) - (13)
                 Re: yeah, that "petition"... - (johnu) - (12)
                     Scientists are all bought and paid for . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                     BFD - (jake123) - (10)
                         Really - (deSitter)
                         Oh, you fool, you . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                         Counterpoint... - (admin) - (7)
                             'In it's entirety' - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
                                 Lower third of Florida - (jake123) - (2)
                                     Clinton caused it. - (imric)
                                     I'll make popcorn -NT - (altmann)
                                 I'm not saying I agree. - (admin) - (2)
                                     Yup. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                         Don't forget... - (bepatient)
             Although... - (static)

It's Microsoft clearly boiling the frogs...
65 ms