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New The mapper did not reduce his code size
Ah yes. Right. Scott was talking about an object-relational mapper. Which means that the overall example is going to involve a lot of OOP.

It was not the mapper that allowed him to shorten his queries. Again, just because something exists does not necessarily mean it is better.

Plus, how come you cannot use your techniques to shorten challenge #6?
________________
oop.ismad.com
Expand Edited by tablizer Nov. 5, 2004, 05:16:02 PM EST
New Bryce, you lost this one already.
I'm not going to continue this discussion. I have a job, and I have work that needs to get done. This conversation has happened before, and you've lost. Repeatedly and decisively.

If you wish to read this as, "Bryce has more free time than Ben" you'd be perfectly correct. I'll let you waste someone else's time if anyone is interested.

Regards,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New I did NOT fscken lose. He gave no code-size proof. Zilch.
You guys have a warped sense of evidence. Did you flunk science class?
________________
oop.ismad.com
Expand Edited by tablizer Nov. 5, 2004, 07:15:01 PM EST
New Why is code size your (apparently) sole criterion?
Is it because that's the "best" metric? Please show your proof.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New You are welcome to present ANY metric you can justify
The common common metrics that people more or less agree on are:

* Once and only once - ridding duplication

* Easier to change - change scenarios are given and the impact on code is analyzed

* Code size - less code is generally better

I am not saying these are necessarily the best or most complete, but they are the easiest to analyze and communicate about up to this point.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Thank you
I asked for proof of the value of your metric.

You replied that it's common and people more or less agree.

So popularity is your criterion.

OOP is popular.

Therefore, OOP is good.

Thank you for this admission of defeat.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Usually people don't question those much
If you have some better ones, then please describe them.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New We've already been over change scenarios
Re-read the thread. You gave up on the change metric because of the branching and source code control issues.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New re: We've already been over change scenarios
You gave up on the change metric because of the branching and source code control issues.

"Branching"? I am not sure what you are refering to. Version branching or flow logic branching?

As far as version management, the existing tools are biased toward files. I agreed to that fact. However, that is not an inborn inherent fault of tables, which was my point above.
________________
oop.ismad.com
     Time for good anti-OO battle to take minds off of election - (tablizer) - (77)
         Sorry cant go there - (daemon) - (32)
             How is being locked to a DB more evil than being locked to - (tablizer) - (31)
                 It's best to fit the tool to the job - (FuManChu) - (30)
                     Thanks for that ... +5 insightful - (drewk) - (6)
                         For various definitions of "start" ;) - (FuManChu)
                         On writing the "little language thing ..." - (systems) - (4)
                             Suggestion - (ben_tilly)
                             "Little Language" definition, components - (FuManChu) - (2)
                                 On what makes it easy to do little languages. - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                     Good point. - (FuManChu)
                     Orthogonal to DB usage - (tablizer) - (22)
                         That's actually a good idea - (drewk) - (17)
                             *Snork* beat me to it :) -NT - (FuManChu)
                             Cure worse than the medicine. - (tablizer) - (15)
                                 "tends to bloat up code" - (admin) - (14)
                                     Your "solution" to such bloat was HQL, yes or no? -NT - (tablizer) - (13)
                                         It was a solution, yes. -NT - (admin)
                                         Since you seem to be slow... - (ben_tilly) - (11)
                                             I did NOT "lose". His solution was variation on SQL - (tablizer) - (10)
                                                 In your universe, perhaps - (ben_tilly) - (9)
                                                     The mapper did not reduce his code size - (tablizer) - (8)
                                                         Bryce, you lost this one already. - (ben_tilly) - (7)
                                                             I did NOT fscken lose. He gave no code-size proof. Zilch. - (tablizer) - (6)
                                                                 Why is code size your (apparently) sole criterion? - (drewk) - (5)
                                                                     You are welcome to present ANY metric you can justify - (tablizer) - (4)
                                                                         Thank you - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                             Usually people don't question those much - (tablizer)
                                                                         We've already been over change scenarios - (admin) - (1)
                                                                             re: We've already been over change scenarios - (tablizer)
                         "Orthogonal" in exactly the same sense as differential gears - (FuManChu) - (3)
                             You just shortened this thread by 200 posts. Cut & Paste. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 "[Nobody] ...points out that the cut-and-paste method... - (FuManChu)
                             No, you got me all wrong, dude - (tablizer)
         Repeat after me: - (admin) - (1)
             I never said OO was JUST about inheritance. - (tablizer)
         Amusing to note... - (JimWeirich) - (41)
             re: nouns and noun grouping - (tablizer) - (40)
                 Bryce: control tables are bad - (admin) - (37)
                     Time will erase performance differences - (tablizer) - (36)
                         That's not the main reason why they're bad. - (admin) - (35)
                             Because VC tools are hierarchy-biased. - (tablizer) - (34)
                                 Go read the thread. - (admin) - (33)
                                     You always talk as if I push a grand conspiracy - (tablizer) - (32)
                                         Relational has its place. - (admin) - (31)
                                             Math and Boolean expressions - (tablizer) - (30)
                                                 Ever use Zachary? - (admin) - (29)
                                                     I will believe it only when I see it with my own eyes - (tablizer) - (28)
                                                         - said the blind man (ducks and runs) -NT - (Arkadiy)
                                                         NO. - (admin) - (26)
                                                             You never identified an in-born fault of tables. -NT - (tablizer) - (25)
                                                                 Tables don't make good chairs. - (Another Scott) - (24)
                                                                     Vacuum Tubes - (tablizer) - (23)
                                                                         You can pry my tube guitar amp outta my cold, dead fingers. - (Steve Lowe) - (22)
                                                                             Digital precision can be boring - (tablizer) - (18)
                                                                                 Yes - tubes are IT man - (tuberculosis) - (17)
                                                                                     Heh! That was my first bass amp! - (jb4) - (16)
                                                                                         I don't know whether to be amused or appalled - (tuberculosis) - (15)
                                                                                             Both actually - (jb4) - (14)
                                                                                                 In negotiations - (jake123) - (13)
                                                                                                     Drooooooooool - (Steve Lowe) - (12)
                                                                                                         Didn't get it - (jake123) - (11)
                                                                                                             Bum R! -NT - (jb4) - (10)
                                                                                                                 Oh well. - (jake123) - (9)
                                                                                                                     Talk to your amp tech - (Steve Lowe) - (8)
                                                                                                                         Oh yeah - (jake123) - (1)
                                                                                                                             Had a teacher who did that - (drewk)
                                                                                                                         Re: Talk to your amp tech - (Ashton) - (5)
                                                                                                                             What I'm gaining - (jake123) - (4)
                                                                                                                                 Have you considered an attenuator? - (Steve Lowe) - (3)
                                                                                                                                     Yes I have - (jake123) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         New thread time, maybe...? -NT - (admin)
                                                                                                                                         This might not cost a bundle.. (new thread) - (Ashton)
                                                                             Mesa Boogie Forever -NT - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                 That'll prolly be my second choice - (jake123)
                                                                                 Feh! The Ultimate was... - (jb4)
                 re: nouns and noun grouping - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                     Can't do a whole lot with your hidden anecdotes - (tablizer)

Bestowing a cruddy-green patina to this over-polished line of deductive reasoning.
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