Going to disagreed on this point

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Post #176,075

by JimWeirich

9/24/04 1:01:56 AM

Going to disagreed on this point

[...] Frankly, I think a language (or style) can be OO even without polymorphism. Granted, you're giving up a huge potential advantage.

I'm going to respectively disagree on this one. Of the two notable features of OO (inheritance and polymorphism), I find that it is polymorphism that most greatly defines the OO style. Take inheritance out of an OO language, and you can still do most of the things that OO enables. Take polymorphism out of an OO language and you are dead in the water.

In fact, I will assert that it is runtime/dynamic polymorphism that is required. Static/compile time polymorphism isn't enough.

--
-- Jim Weirich jim@weirichhouse.org [link|http://onestepback.org|http://onestepback.org]
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Post #176,089

by deSitter

9/24/04 4:01:49 AM

agreed

I've argued that MI is unneeded, and SI is derivative. Its P that is essential - mapping of name to behavior at will.

-drl

Lines of code in a Java method ... - (bluke) - (73) - Sept. 22, 2004, 10:23:14 AM EDT

I don't know of studies of this with OO languages - (ben_tilly) - (64) - Sept. 22, 2004, 10:48:22 AM EDT

I remember that when I read Code Complete ... - (bluke) - (60) - Sept. 22, 2004, 10:59:17 AM EDT

Hence my speculation about how and why to change that for OO -NT - (ben_tilly) - (59) - Sept. 22, 2004, 11:30:34 AM EDT

In OO code many of the decision points ... - (bluke) - (58) - Sept. 22, 2004, 11:36:37 AM EDT

Quibble - (ben_tilly) - (57) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:04:26 PM EDT

Okay, thought it was just me - (drewk) - (46) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:59:44 PM EDT

Not really missing anything. - (FuManChu) - (1) - Sept. 22, 2004, 09:34:24 PM EDT

VMT in C++ - (Arkadiy) - Sept. 23, 2004, 09:56:51 AM EDT

The superclass decides nothing - (ben_tilly) - (43) - Sept. 22, 2004, 09:55:16 PM EDT

Once again, it's the terminology - (drewk) - (40) - Sept. 22, 2004, 10:20:23 PM EDT

That's not multiple inheritance - (ben_tilly) - Sept. 23, 2004, 12:05:47 AM EDT

Ramble ramble ramble - (FuManChu) - Sept. 23, 2004, 02:46:35 AM EDT

Yes and No - (bluke) - (37) - Sept. 23, 2004, 03:57:24 AM EDT

I mis-read Ben - (drewk) - (36) - Sept. 23, 2004, 10:07:50 AM EDT

You misunderstand interfaces and factories ... - (bluke) - (2) - Sept. 23, 2004, 11:20:06 AM EDT

Drew is right. - (FuManChu) - (1) - Sept. 23, 2004, 12:38:44 PM EDT

My point was - (bluke) - Sept. 23, 2004, 05:00:13 PM EDT

I'm actually on the fence - (ben_tilly) - (32) - Sept. 23, 2004, 10:55:24 AM EDT

That is with implementation inheritance - (bluke) - (2) - Sept. 23, 2004, 11:00:41 AM EDT

That is both with interface and implementation inheritance - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Sept. 23, 2004, 11:08:29 AM EDT

With interfaces it is less of a concern - (bluke) - Sept. 23, 2004, 11:17:39 AM EDT

Hadn't heard of LSP - (drewk) - (28) - Sept. 23, 2004, 12:36:16 PM EDT

Huh? - (tuberculosis) - (27) - Sept. 23, 2004, 01:23:55 PM EDT

Don't get all religious on me - (drewk) - (26) - Sept. 24, 2004, 12:30:58 AM EDT

Going to disagreed on this point - (JimWeirich) - (1) - Sept. 24, 2004, 01:01:56 AM EDT

agreed - (deSitter) - Sept. 24, 2004, 04:01:49 AM EDT

Re: Don't get all religious on me - (JimWeirich) - (23) - Sept. 24, 2004, 01:11:21 AM EDT

And that's the key point - (ben_tilly) - (22) - Sept. 24, 2004, 10:34:42 AM EDT

Someday I've got to take a class - (drewk) - (21) - Sept. 24, 2004, 03:18:39 PM EDT

..when I get my inheritance -NT - (deSitter) - Sept. 24, 2004, 03:54:21 PM EDT

Yup. No generic substitute for that. -NT - (FuManChu) - Sept. 24, 2004, 04:00:08 PM EDT

Good idea in this instance. - (admin) - (14) - Sept. 24, 2004, 04:20:45 PM EDT

I object; it's part of a general pattern -NT - (FuManChu) - (13) - Sept. 24, 2004, 05:44:34 PM EDT

Ah, but I have a cunning strategy... - (admin) - (12) - Sept. 24, 2004, 06:17:48 PM EDT

Bah. Overridden. - (FuManChu) - (1) - Sept. 24, 2004, 06:26:44 PM EDT

Overloaded your capacity for understanding, eh? - (admin) - Sept. 24, 2004, 06:31:13 PM EDT

Ashton, is that you? - (Another Scott) - (7) - Sept. 24, 2004, 06:29:07 PM EDT

Better than the treasurer... - (admin) - (6) - Sept. 24, 2004, 06:33:02 PM EDT

He'll have to wait - I'm collecting garbage - (ben_tilly) - (5) - Sept. 24, 2004, 06:59:43 PM EDT

Coincidentally, there's a fellow around here named Mark... - (admin) - (4) - Sept. 24, 2004, 08:48:18 PM EDT

I'm sorry but that pointer is dangling - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 24, 2004, 09:11:32 PM EDT

Some people have too much time on their hands... - (static) - (2) - Sept. 25, 2004, 06:26:13 AM EDT

You're a real LALRf riot. - (admin) - (1) - Sept. 25, 2004, 09:35:21 AM EDT

So you sed. Personally, I think it's a Perl in the Blinker. -NT - (Another Scott) - Sept. 25, 2004, 10:12:54 AM EDT

Uuuuuhh... - (jb4) - Sept. 24, 2004, 07:27:18 PM EDT

The cun.. er, clever linguist suffers Code 715 - (Ashton) - Sept. 25, 2004, 03:08:51 AM EDT

Or an interface - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Sept. 24, 2004, 10:56:23 PM EDT

Yes, and that's what we do - (drewk) - (1) - Sept. 25, 2004, 10:04:33 PM EDT

Language doesn't need to support abstract class - (tuberculosis) - Sept. 25, 2004, 11:47:26 PM EDT

That was not what I meant - (bluke) - Sept. 26, 2004, 02:30:26 AM EDT

It's a decision, but it's abstracted out - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Sept. 23, 2004, 10:11:04 AM EDT

Yes, but I don't care how it works - (bluke) - Sept. 23, 2004, 10:39:02 AM EDT

DP's are compressed in OO - (tuberculosis) - (6) - Sept. 23, 2004, 01:09:43 PM EDT

Polymorphism relies on a lie - (tablizer) - (5) - Oct. 7, 2004, 11:07:36 PM EDT

Re: Polymorphism relies on a lie - (admin) - (2) - Oct. 7, 2004, 11:23:58 PM EDT

Mostly, it is - (tablizer) - (1) - Oct. 13, 2004, 01:10:40 PM EDT

To the naive programmer, perhaps. - (admin) - Oct. 13, 2004, 01:57:31 PM EDT

Something tells me you'd like prototype OO as a midground -NT - (FuManChu) - (1) - Oct. 8, 2004, 01:56:34 AM EDT

*No-one* can eat that much crow -NT - (pwhysall) - Oct. 8, 2004, 01:57:41 AM EDT

We had a big fight over case-vs-poly a few years ago -NT - (tablizer) - (2) - Sept. 27, 2004, 11:34:24 PM EDT

Charley Rock Tree - (ChrisR) - (1) - Sept. 27, 2004, 11:41:52 PM EDT

Ha! :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - Sept. 27, 2004, 11:45:00 PM EDT

Re: I don't know of studies of this with OO languages - (deSitter) - Sept. 22, 2004, 02:44:15 PM EDT

Interesting comment by Ron Jeffries - (bluke) - (1) - Sept. 23, 2004, 08:41:04 AM EDT

Re: Interesting comment by Ron Jeffries - (deSitter) - Sept. 23, 2004, 09:36:49 AM EDT

to minimize the damage that these kind of developers wreak - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Sept. 22, 2004, 01:04:29 PM EDT

Unfortunately I can't - (bluke) - Sept. 22, 2004, 01:17:18 PM EDT

4. -NT - (FuManChu) - (2) - Sept. 22, 2004, 02:30:58 PM EDT

In smalltalk that might be realistic - (bluke) - (1) - Sept. 23, 2004, 04:02:32 AM EDT

That was my point. Glad someone got the joke :) -NT - (FuManChu) - Sept. 23, 2004, 12:40:30 PM EDT

1/2 page - (tuberculosis) - Sept. 23, 2004, 01:18:44 PM EDT

Re: Lines of code in a Java method ... - (dshellman) - (1) - Sept. 23, 2004, 01:43:04 PM EDT

Agree - (bluke) - Sept. 26, 2004, 02:32:18 AM EDT

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