Post #175,624
9/22/04 9:50:06 AM
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Cat Stevens a terrorist!
I know, because [link|http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/22/plane.diverted.stevens/index.html|our gub'mint says so]. And They said it, and I believe it, and that settles it!
Owlsley...you still think we're free?!?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #175,625
9/22/04 9:55:15 AM
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Well I do think its an over-reaction.
However, he has publicly supported things like the execution of Salmon Rushdie and has given financial support to terrorist groups...some of that money making it to groups like Hamas.
So maybe he, himself isn't a terrorist...thinking instead that he is just an enlightened soul...but his money has made it to those who are terrorists.
He should have been heavily screened...but pulling him off the flight was silly.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,627
9/22/04 9:57:26 AM
9/22/04 10:27:05 AM
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I don't think you get it
He wasn't just pulled off the flight. He was deported. He's not permitted into the US anymore.
Edit: in the interests of complete accuracy, I should say "will be deported".
Finally, it looks like the US is into the guilt by association thing. I hope all philanthropists start looking carefully at who they give money too.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by jake123
Sept. 22, 2004, 10:27:05 AM EDT
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Post #175,633
9/22/04 10:36:14 AM
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Your "Faith-based Initiative" at work.
So long as it is the "right" faith, of course
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #175,638
9/22/04 10:51:02 AM
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non sequiter
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,720
9/22/04 1:18:47 PM
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Think about it for a minute, BeeP...
...then maybe you'll get it.
...or not....
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #175,724
9/22/04 1:27:32 PM
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I know where you're going
but it just ain't so.
There is concerted effort in this administration to go the entirely opposite direction of what you imply...hence the fining of AA and UA for singling out too many in line.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,637
9/22/04 10:50:11 AM
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And I think its an overreaction.
Just like I said.
And it would be naivite in the extreme for Mr Islam to think that the money he was giving to the various organizations was not ending up as terrorist support.
In his defense, though. He has to dispose of quite a bit of royalty income based on his belief that it is against God's will to put your money in an interest bearing account. So he bought a hotel and built a school...but probably had some left over that found its way into the more violent factions of the religion.
The problem is, in his public support of Rushdie thing...he id'd himself as a supporter of some of the more radical elements.
Again...the government is likely overreacting, but Yousef Islam has given them some cause to do so.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,644
9/22/04 11:20:22 AM
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I wasn't particularly criticising you
simply pointing out that the actions went further than you said in your post. In short, he's banned from the US and is basically considered a terrorist.
What do you think of the idea that you can be held responsible for what a third party does with money you give them... esp. when you either may not or do not know what exactly will be done with it?
Is giving money to muslim charities automatically grounds for banning foreign citizens as terrorists? What about branding US citizens as such?
This is pretty much of a part with the current designation of (IIRC) Omar Khadr as a terrorist for planting landmines and killing a US soldier in a firefight. It should be noted that these events happened while there was still a hot war going on in Afghanistan. If planting landmines and killing US soldiers makes one a terrorist by fiat, who ISN'T one in any insurgency in any country that the US currently occupies or may occupy? Even more to the point, does this mean that we should start seeking out all Afghans who planted landmines and killed Russian soldiers during their occupation of the country?
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #175,658
9/22/04 11:40:06 AM
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The real double standard
Just how many Saudi representatives are here and welcomed by the government that have the same link to these organizations?
Neither candidate will address that problem, either. Shame really. Kerry is all talk, his energy independence plan not really kicking in till 10 years after his term would be over anyway...and the majority of the plan mirrors what Bush already is doing...which is funding alternative energy research and attempting to bolster inventiveness in the sector. Bush's focus has been on alternative fuel for cars (hydrogen)...lofty...maybe it will work...and if so we will actually have created something that we can competitively market throughtout the globe (reducing the current account deficit...woohoo).
Issue is...we have to bite some serious bullet to have our cake and eat it too. We either allow ANWR and use it to offset Saudi directly...then take the other from the new IRAQ...then mandate 40 mpg fleet averages and spend like hell on research or we continue to have to play nice with the Saudis.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,665
9/22/04 11:54:39 AM
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I like how you indict him
without proof. ...but probably had some left over that found its way into the more violent factions of the religion.
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Post #175,668
9/22/04 11:55:57 AM
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The fed claims to have that proof.
I don't.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,675
9/22/04 12:00:34 PM
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They do?
A government official said Islam was on the watch list because of "known associations and financial support to organizations believed to be aiding terrorism." Chuckle...better be careful if you donate blood to the Red Cross, the government might decide that the Red Cross is "aiding terrorism". (Actually, gives new meaning to the term blood money. ;-)
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Post #175,698
9/22/04 12:35:07 PM
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Thats how he got on the list.
I don't make the rules.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,628
9/22/04 10:01:43 AM
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Cackle
Salmon
[image|http://www.nessie.co.uk/graphics/salmon.jpg||||]
Salman
[image|http://www.cnn.com/2000/books/reviews/12/11/review.rock.and.roll/story.rushdie.jpg||||]
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #175,629
9/22/04 10:21:55 AM
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Ohh! OK...I got it now..............................;-\ufffd
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #175,632
9/22/04 10:35:30 AM
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oopsie. Something fishy about that one.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,674
9/22/04 12:00:21 PM
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I shan't carp on about it.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #175,696
9/22/04 12:33:58 PM
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Your wit has me floundering to find a retort.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,697
9/22/04 12:34:56 PM
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Pardon? My herring is going. Speak up!
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #175,706
9/22/04 12:41:30 PM
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Guess I won't ask you to tuna piano then.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,710
9/22/04 12:49:10 PM
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I could, but you'd have to bring it to my plaice.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #175,714
9/22/04 1:04:20 PM
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I'm a shrimp...so I'll need kelp getting it there.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,728
9/22/04 1:35:19 PM
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I think I'm the sole person keeping this thing going.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #175,739
9/22/04 1:52:38 PM
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Abalone!
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,640
9/22/04 10:55:34 AM
9/22/04 10:58:51 AM
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Not to mention all those suicide bombers that were inspired
...by Harold and Maude.
Edited by ChrisR
Sept. 22, 2004, 10:58:51 AM EDT
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Post #175,659
9/22/04 11:40:40 AM
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Thought you were gonna use Peace Train.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,685
9/22/04 12:15:49 PM
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I like the more obscure references.
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Post #175,654
9/22/04 11:30:42 AM
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When your money ends up supporting terrorists...
But, but -- who among us has not purchased a petroleum-based product in the last 30 years?
Giovanni
Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for.
You don't need George Bush for that.
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Post #175,642
9/22/04 11:16:43 AM
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I feel so much safer now...
Now that the creator of that subversive little ditty, Peace Train, is no longer free to fly and terrorize people with his lyrics. I feel double plus good safer knowing Teddy Kennedy is on the same list.
-----------------------------------------
It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand.
Mike Royko
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Post #175,660
9/22/04 11:41:40 AM
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Rather have Eddie on the fly list...
...cause we all know he's a crappy driver.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,650
9/22/04 11:26:01 AM
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Once again
I'm not revisiting this topic, I explained what freedom meant to me, and there is no need to repeat it.
Have a nice day, JB. :)
Nightowl >8#
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #175,718
9/22/04 1:11:26 PM
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"I'm being followed by a NeoCon-shadow."
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,725
9/22/04 1:28:58 PM
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Everybody sing along...
"And if I ever lose my mouth..all my teeth...north and south..."
***WHACK***
Beat down by the MAN!
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,775
9/22/04 3:04:06 PM
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Hehehe
I was just yesterday discussion rewriting Montego Bay (was a minor hit in the Eighties, IIRC) called Guantanamo Bay
Come sing along
I got sent down to Camp X-Ray
Come for the beatdown at Guantanamo Bay!
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #175,776
9/22/04 3:13:13 PM
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He ain't a citizen anymore
therefore, he has less rights in the USA than you and I. And the government can keep him out if they want.
What's that got to do with Owl's opinion of how free she is? Or do you feel less free because a non-citizen was prevented from entering our country?
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #175,788
9/22/04 4:06:57 PM
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Huh?
Why does he have "less rights"? I don't see anything in the Bill of Rights that restricts rights to citizens. I'm not sure (and if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected) but I think that the courts have generally worked on the premise that Constitutional Rights are not restricted to citizens.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,792
9/22/04 4:27:21 PM
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Constitutional Rights
Are restricted to foreigners that are physically in this country. Foreigners outside of our borders have no judicially protected rights whatsoever - witness the military base that the Cuban's have so kindly let us use to hold prisoners for safe-keeping.
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Post #175,797
9/22/04 4:47:48 PM
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There are differences in legal treatements.
And challenges under the BoR protections are less likely to succeed for non-citizens.
So, you are partially correct. The BoR itself doesn't distinguish but sometimes the Judicial system does (and also the legislature)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #175,891
9/23/04 10:37:24 AM
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And of course, the DHS interprets for all of us ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,805
9/22/04 5:42:47 PM
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But.. but... he wrote all those nice hippie songs!
And he [link|http://www.fact-index.com/c/ca/cat_stevens.html|supported the fatwah against Salman Rushdie] ...oh wait. That's a bad thing.
Oh,and he loves Saddam, too. Every good nice kind person loves Saddam, right? Saddam's just a big cuddly teddy bear who gives out candy to kids at Christmas. The beard proves it.
Oh well. He says he's better now. All peace and love again. He's not a terrorist, he just hangs out with them.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I will not rate.
Lucy Ramirez please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
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Post #175,908
9/23/04 11:22:23 AM
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Yeah, he did. What have you done?
Oh right, nothing but moan.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #175,910
9/23/04 11:23:32 AM
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Okie from /dev/null here - move along
-drl
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Post #175,948
9/23/04 1:53:27 PM
9/23/04 1:54:22 PM
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Cat Stevens IS the next best thing to a terrorist!
Remember Salman Rushdie
Yusuf Islam went on TV and said that all those who insult Islam must be killed
You can call him Cat Stevens if you like but I'd bet he's given money to plenty of questionable groups (even the US government gets one right occasionally)
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
Edited by andread
Sept. 23, 2004, 01:54:22 PM EDT
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Post #176,003
9/23/04 6:26:09 PM
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So have you: got much Microsoft, Walmart stuff?
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Post #176,016
9/23/04 7:14:44 PM
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Re: So have you: got much Microsoft, Walmart stuff?
If a non citizen public figure who states that large swathes of the american public must be killed, should he be allowed to come here? I think not.
thanks,
bill
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Post #176,023
9/23/04 7:33:06 PM
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Re: So have you: got much Microsoft, Walmart stuff?
Not sure what your point is here
surely Salman Rushdie is closer to the politics that you espouse here than the ex-Cat will ever be
no one threatened the life of the ex-Cat either
there was a world wide fatwa against Rushdie who had to spend many years in hiding
If I ran the circus I don't know if I'd spend a lot of many keeping the ex-Cat out of the country but it doesn't bother me that he isn't let in
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
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Post #176,111
9/24/04 9:33:50 AM
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From "Nothing to fear but fear itself" to "Nothing but fear"
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #176,289
9/24/04 6:19:05 PM
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fear?
Yusuf Islam made his choices
let him live with them
If I heard him say he was wrong about Rushdie (a real person who lived in real fear for many years because he wrote a book and the Islamic fundamentalists lied about its content and then ordered him killed to support their lies) and releated issues then I might say it was wrong to keep him out of the country
It seems like many are saying 'oh they won't let the guy who wrote Peace Train in ha ha'
Yusuf Islam denounced his former career, rejected his music and then in a moment of self-serving hypocrisy re-records Peace Train to aid the Islamic cause
I'm not for the war in Iraq or the so-called war on terror
I'm pro-Rushdie and anti- Yusuf Islam
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
|
Post #176,290
9/24/04 6:21:29 PM
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Sound about right to me
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Post #176,335
9/24/04 9:19:27 PM
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My retort was too oblique
Meant only that, "terrierists" are often in the eye of the beholder. Every dead Iraqi and his family and their clan (and anyone else who likes to retell, nay - needs to retell.. the tale about a dismembered mother+son etc.) - each one of these sees *Our* actions Quite Personally. And they were Terrified.
*We* terrorize, and have in some small way, somewhere.. in the banana republics -- from since we purchased the first boatlod of SLAVES. Giant Monopolists continue to use leverage against the governments! of less $-powerful nations. People are killed in this $-battle. It's still the same process. But oblique, yes.
I'll go with your side on the Rushdie issue, however. Lots of plastic 'celebrities' mouth off almost as stupidly as Professionally-bought congresscritters - they are Bad, but no worse than other well subsidized liars.
He wrote some catchy tunes. He flunked Human BS 101A. And he made the wrong call re stupid fucking fatwahs; those don't come from Gawd; they come from wackos.
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Post #176,338
9/24/04 9:26:11 PM
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Question.
You mention- to aid the Islamic cause . This is where I become confused. What cause are you speaking of? What are it's characteristics? How do you identify it? Remember, I'm a non-religious guy, so you'll have to spell it out for me. -----------------------------------------
It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand.
Mike Royko
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Post #176,481
9/26/04 2:55:38 PM
|
perhaps I should have said
to aid the radical Islamist cause
I meant to refer to those Muslims who believe that they are commanded by God to destroy the US and its ally Israel by any means necessary
I do not believe that all Muslims believe this
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]
|
Post #176,050
9/23/04 11:17:43 PM
|
Re: Cat Stevens a terrorist!
I for one would like to hear the truth on this issue.
Others have been arrested for contributing to charaties that funded terrorism, or even hosting terrorist web sites. The Artist formerly known as Cat Stevens has done some questionable things in the recent past. That got him on a list of "suspected terrorists" that should not be allowed into the USA. I will await for when the Feds release the charges on what he has supposidly done to get on that list.
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
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Post #176,074
9/24/04 12:55:58 AM
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Interesting diary on K5
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/9/23/221040/186|http://www.kuro5hin....4/9/23/221040/186]
It says the Ex-Cat has Terrorist ties, even Israel booted him out for contributing to Hamas. I wonder why the recent news did not report things like that?
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
|
